Gondor, Rohan and Lorien - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

09-14-2006, 05:04 PM

I hope I am not intruding by jumping in. I'm new to this sort of thing and bring with me only my love of LOTR and other JRRT writings.

The theme I am gleaning from this thread is a lament that Celeborn seems to be sitting in the back seat and a wonder that Galadriel is held up so high. The Silmarillion answers this. Galadriel was a High Elf and JRRT seemed obsessed with them. Celeborn is a Wood Elf, of one of the clans that never even answered the call to go overseas, if memory serves me right. He is very old and has been around a long time, but his entire existence has been in Middle Earth.

Galadriel, on the other hand, was born in Valinor. She knew life in the undying lands amidst the two trees. She joined the rebellious ones and fled to Middle Earth. She had high ambitions of being a big fish in a little pond. In the beginning, she was a warrior, willing to fight to be that big fish.

However, by the time we meet her in LOTR, the battle has pretty much gone out of her. She is struggling against the curse the Valar placed upon those Elves who rebelled and fled to Middle Earth - that they would weary of it. The ring of power she wore kept that weariness at bay - but it cost her. Her's is by far the more dramatic story. I think that's why she gets more press than Celeborn.

Elladan and Elrohir · 09-15-2006, 02:08 PM

Well, Celeborn was actually a Sinda (Grey-Elf), closely related to Elu Thingol of Doriath. This makes him one of the Eldar, not the Avari, but ultimately still one of the Moriquendi. (Sorry, I just enjoy being able to throw terms like those around and actually know what they mean.) But yeah, your point still holds that Galadriel certainly had more inherent power than Celeborn did. And I think that's why she's usually considered the dominant member in the marriage.

Rune Son of Bjarne · 09-15-2006, 02:36 PM

I think we should be carefull not going off topic. . . This could turn into a discusion about Galadriel and Celeborns powers/might.

However a thing I think could be fun to include in the discusion is Thranduil and the elves of northern Mirkwood. (if The Mouth of Sauron does not mind)

They seemed to interact with men more than everybody else though mostly through trade. . . Their Kingdom seemed closed like Lothlorien, not a place you go for council. But you are not afraid of them and even trade with them. How come this elven people are different from the others. . .

The Mouth of Sauron · 09-15-2006, 04:27 PM

A good point .

My worry about the Rohirrim's lack of contact with races to the north remains - the Limlight, Rohan's northern border was only 125 miles from Lorien and 150 miles from Mirkwood . Surely over the 500 years of Rohan's history a few stalwart Riders of Rohan would have established contact with races to the north .

Or perhaps I should say maintained contact - after all the Eothed CAME from the north .

Annatar! · 09-16-2006, 08:45 AM

I use a terrible analogy here... forgive me.
One does not walk into Buckingham Palace the home of the Queen of England. They view it from afar with awe; an emotion that implies many things i.e respect, trepidation and yes even fear.
However they can quite easily 'tour' the Houses of Parliament where (apparent) good counsel is held, and decisions are made by those who we (apparently) should look towards in times of need.
Galadriel is the most noble elf alive during the 3rd age, the period of time that this thread discusses, and yes i believe the most powerful (power does not always imply 'warrior' status, even though she has demonstrated her prowess in this manner in previous ages. The most powerful man in our world has never been physically involved in any of the conflicts of our time! {and i am in NO WAY comparing Galadriel to our current world leaders; Eru forbid!})
Elrond is the wisest in lore; the governing of Middle-Earth, the upholding of and respect for relationships between Elves and Men (except when his daughter's concerned lol).
To me it seems quite natural for Lorien to be 'overlooked' as a place of friendship and looked at as rather a place of awe, and for Imladris to be the place where one goes for counsel etc.
Ironic that the one place where the most potent enemy of Sauron lies is the one place so many men fear to tread!

09-14-2006, 05:04 PM	#1
Lobelia Bracegirdle Guest Posts: n/a	High Elves and Wood Elves I hope I am not intruding by jumping in. I'm new to this sort of thing and bring with me only my love of LOTR and other JRRT writings. The theme I am gleaning from this thread is a lament that Celeborn seems to be sitting in the back seat and a wonder that Galadriel is held up so high. The Silmarillion answers this. Galadriel was a High Elf and JRRT seemed obsessed with them. Celeborn is a Wood Elf, of one of the clans that never even answered the call to go overseas, if memory serves me right. He is very old and has been around a long time, but his entire existence has been in Middle Earth. Galadriel, on the other hand, was born in Valinor. She knew life in the undying lands amidst the two trees. She joined the rebellious ones and fled to Middle Earth. She had high ambitions of being a big fish in a little pond. In the beginning, she was a warrior, willing to fight to be that big fish. However, by the time we meet her in LOTR, the battle has pretty much gone out of her. She is struggling against the curse the Valar placed upon those Elves who rebelled and fled to Middle Earth - that they would weary of it. The ring of power she wore kept that weariness at bay - but it cost her. Her's is by far the more dramatic story. I think that's why she gets more press than Celeborn.

09-15-2006, 02:08 PM	#2
Elladan and Elrohir Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Halls of Mandos Posts: 332	Well, Celeborn was actually a Sinda (Grey-Elf), closely related to Elu Thingol of Doriath. This makes him one of the Eldar, not the Avari, but ultimately still one of the Moriquendi. (Sorry, I just enjoy being able to throw terms like those around and actually know what they mean.) But yeah, your point still holds that Galadriel certainly had more inherent power than Celeborn did. And I think that's why she's usually considered the dominant member in the marriage. __________________ "If you're referring to the incident with the dragon, I was barely involved. All I did was give your uncle a little nudge out of the door." THE HOBBIT - IT'S COMING

09-16-2006, 08:45 AM	#5
Annatar! Pile O'Bones Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 11	I use a terrible analogy here... forgive me. One does not walk into Buckingham Palace the home of the Queen of England. They view it from afar with awe; an emotion that implies many things i.e respect, trepidation and yes even fear. However they can quite easily 'tour' the Houses of Parliament where (apparent) good counsel is held, and decisions are made by those who we (apparently) should look towards in times of need. Galadriel is the most noble elf alive during the 3rd age, the period of time that this thread discusses, and yes i believe the most powerful (power does not always imply 'warrior' status, even though she has demonstrated her prowess in this manner in previous ages. The most powerful man in our world has never been physically involved in any of the conflicts of our time! {and i am in NO WAY comparing Galadriel to our current world leaders; Eru forbid!}) Elrond is the wisest in lore; the governing of Middle-Earth, the upholding of and respect for relationships between Elves and Men (except when his daughter's concerned lol). To me it seems quite natural for Lorien to be 'overlooked' as a place of friendship and looked at as rather a place of awe, and for Imladris to be the place where one goes for counsel etc. Ironic that the one place where the most potent enemy of Sauron lies is the one place so many men fear to tread! __________________ for Sauron took to himself the name of Annatar; the Lord of Gifts

09-15-2006, 04:27 PM	#4
The Mouth of Sauron Wight Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Barad-Dur Posts: 196	A good point . My worry about the Rohirrim's lack of contact with races to the north remains - the Limlight, Rohan's northern border was only 125 miles from Lorien and 150 miles from Mirkwood . Surely over the 500 years of Rohan's history a few stalwart Riders of Rohan would have established contact with races to the north . Or perhaps I should say maintained contact - after all the Eothed CAME from the north .