Silmarillion - Ainulindale

[Raynor]

Rebel or Nameless Goody-goody - it seems the Author has already penned what will in the long run be happening.

Well... Eru is named the "one wholly free Will and Agent" (letter #156); ultimately, _all_ creation, from Ainu to rocks, is a manifestation of Eru, so I don't see how any part of it could be wholly independent of him. But that doesn't preclude manifestations of individual free wills on a less than complete degree.

[mark12_30]

We are never told what exactly this is, though it appears to be some kind of creative force, and it is said to be “with Iluvatar”.

Clyde S. Kilby notes in his book "Tolkien as Christian Writer" that:
Quote:
Professor Tolkien talked to me at some length about the use of the word "holy" in The Silmarillion. Very specifically he told me that the "Secret Fire sent to burn at the heart of the world" in the beginning was the Holy Spirit

In terms of Middle-earth, what is 'the heart of the world'? Where is it?

[Bêthberry]

Thanks for a good opening to the discussion of The Silm, Aiwendil. I, too, have always enjoyed the Ainulindale, far more than other parts of The Silm. Perhaps it is due to the reason pio mentions, its aural quality.

I am by no means an expert in creation myths, yet I know a little bit of them. Perhaps I make a few very brief observations of some differences and others can explain them further. I hope the brevity of my comments will not be so simplified as to produce errors.

The theme of creation through music differs from many myths which begin with birth. In Greek myth, Gaia (earth) and Uranus (sky) produce children and grandchildren who themselves create plants, animals, stars. In Japanese myths, two gods in particular create mud islands which become (what comes to be called) Japan and their children become the sun, the moon, and the seas. In Iroquois myth, Sky Woman is pushed off the floating sky island by her husband who is irate at her pregnancy. Only the intervention of animals saves her in her fall so she can give birth to North America. (Well, what we know call North America.) Gender, however, is absent from Tolkien's cosmology--or rather, gender refers to only one sex--until the valar clothe themselves and even then gender seems to be simply an appropriation which enables them to be perceived or understood by the Children of Iluvatar--if I understand this passage correctly. Eru is identified in the second line of the story by the masculine pronoun and he alone is accorded the priviledge of supreme creation. Creation for Tolkien is thus a male perogative?

Nor do animals or plants take an active role in the creation of the world, as in the Iroquois myth.

Some other thoughts, which I will give shape and hue through questions: when were the Ainur given the Secret Fire? Only after they had found unison and harmony, when Iluvatar sang a Great Music to them? Yet the Children will be given the secret fire only after the end of days, when they will finally learn to "take Being in the moment of their utterance." What does this intriguing phrase mean? Does it signify the kind of unison which the Ainur achieved or does it suggest something different?

The other question has to do with The Void. What is this and why does Iluvatar initially leave it alone? Is it simply the chaos of other creation myths? What is the relationship between this "place"--if place it is--and the music? And, am I correct in understanding that time exists only once Iluvatar enunciates his famous "Ea" (which word I think also belongs to Babylonian creation myth). My mind boggles at music outside of time--a music without a succession of notes?

a neophyte's thoughts.