Disturbing scenes in the movies - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Alcarin · 09-17-2006, 05:33 AM

Thanks, nice to meet u

doug*platypus · 11-15-2006, 11:06 PM

Someone jogged my memory regarding the Déagol strangulation scene. When I saw that in the movies, it did seem excessively violent. Possibly because of the realism and the fact that it was one friend killing another, it just seemed to stand out above all the beheading and limb-severing as "a bit too far".

Also, it disturbed me when Sam pulled Sméagol down off the rocks by the elven rope around his neck. In fact, I think I can generalise and say that the good guys get away with some real atrocities which we are somehow meant to forgive them for, or gloss over. In the book, they were the good guys precisely because they shunned these types of actions. For example, Faramir "would not snare even an orc with a falsehood". I believe that the heroes in the LOTR movies should have maintained moral superiority rather than descending into violence.

I found Denethor's running jump in flames in Minas Tirith to be a little gratuitous and unecessary. And Gandalf's line about "thus passes Denethor son of Ecthelion", or whatever it was, suddenly seemed to be inappropriate where it did not so in the book. Most likely because the same sense of horror, tragedy and loss is not present. It almost appears that movie Gandalf is glad to see the end of him! Heroic, indeed.

I can't recall seeing Aragorn decapitating the Mouth of Sauron... is this in the EE? But it certainly sounds horrific. Provoked or not, Aragorn should not have assaulted (let alone killed) an opponent who was not there to fight him, but only to taunt him. If Tolkien had intended Aragorn to be so violent, then surely he would have lopped off Bill Ferny's head as well! And why not Butterbur to boot?

Nimrodel_9 · 11-24-2006, 12:07 PM

Quote:

I can't recall seeing Aragorn decapitating the Mouth of Sauron... is this in the EE?

Yes, it was in the EE. I also found it rather disturbing. It makes Aragorn out to be arrogant. Others may argue that he is arrogant, but I don't think so.

Quote:

I found Denethor's running jump in flames in Minas Tirith to be a little gratuitous and unecessary.

Very unnecessary. In the book, Denethor's death is gruesome, but I say that Denethor running around on fire and then jumping is worse. It's like being killed twice, in a way.

Rune Son of Bjarne · 11-24-2006, 12:22 PM

I went to see Crazy Christmas Cabaret this week. . .This year it was called "Bored of the Rings" and actually had a charachter called "Arrogant (Viggo) Mortensen"

sorry to be off topic, but Nimrodel_9 made me think of it. . . .blame her.

Not only was Denethor flame jump unnecessary it was also plain weird. . .It seems to be an unreasonable long run that just doesn't make sence. I must confess that it is not a thing that trouble me much, I found it more weird than disturbing.

Aaron · 11-24-2006, 03:21 PM

Most disturbing scene? Probably the part in Two Towers when Faramirs men are kicking Gollum around. Why exactly were they doing that?

mormegil · 11-24-2006, 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aaron

Most disturbing scene? Probably the part in Two Towers when Faramirs men are kicking Gollum around. Why exactly were they doing that?

Come to think of it I found it a bit distrubing as well. Although I think it goes hand in hand with the change made from book Faramir to movie Faramir, not nearly as noble and more like Boromir.

Rikae · 11-24-2006, 04:46 PM

The only thing I found disturbing in an inappropriate way was Denethor's death scene. It appears that Gandalf, rather than Denethor, is reponsible for his death; plus, having him run out in flames makes it seem almost silly when it should be an extremely tragic, serious scene. I agree that it makes Gandalf's line seem inappropriate, as well. It should have been a disturbing scene, but the disrepectful/somewhat absurd way it was handled made it disturbing in another way.

The Smeagol/Deagol fight is very disturbing, but I wouldn't want it to be otherwise. The scene is inherently horrifying and ought to be filmed that way, so the horror of it is felt. I felt the story called for a scene where the relative innocence of the hobbits beforehand, the lure of the ring, and the suddeness and insanity were apparent; that's what I saw, and so I consider it "appropriately" disturbing, if you catch my drift.
The scene where Faramir's men beat Gollum didn't really strike me as particularly disturbing (no pun intended), because I assumed Gollum struggled/bit etc., and we know what nasssty sharp teeth he has.
Aragorn killing the MOS also didn't because, honestly, I didn't really see the movie MOS as a human in his own right, but as a sort of zombie (right or wrong) and it seemed plausible that Aragorn would stop it from saying things that would cause the men to lose heart.
I might be wrong (I realise that the MOS in the book was in fact human), but I felt that in the context of the movie, it made sense.

alatar · 12-01-2006, 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rune Son of Bjarne

.It seems to be an unreasonable long run that just doesn't make sence. I must confess that it is not a thing that trouble me much, I found it more weird than disturbing.

It makes perfect sense. Denethor, aflame, suddenly comes to his senses and decides to divebomb the enemy at the Gate, sacrificing himself for his people (those that haven't been eaten at that time, that is). It was discussed here, as it's obviously why PJ had Denethor run the mile or so from Rath Dínen to the wall's edge by the White Tree.

09-17-2006, 05:33 AM	#1
Alcarin Pile O'Bones Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: In your House Posts: 18	Thanks, nice to meet u __________________ “By the Way of the warrior is meant death. The Way of the warrior is death. This means choosing death whenever there is a choice between life and death. It means nothing more than this. It means to see things through, being resolved.”

11-15-2006, 11:06 PM	#2
doug*platypus Delver in the Deep Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Aotearoa Posts: 960	Someone jogged my memory regarding the Déagol strangulation scene. When I saw that in the movies, it did seem excessively violent. Possibly because of the realism and the fact that it was one friend killing another, it just seemed to stand out above all the beheading and limb-severing as "a bit too far". Also, it disturbed me when Sam pulled Sméagol down off the rocks by the elven rope around his neck. In fact, I think I can generalise and say that the good guys get away with some real atrocities which we are somehow meant to forgive them for, or gloss over. In the book, they were the good guys precisely because they shunned these types of actions. For example, Faramir "would not snare even an orc with a falsehood". I believe that the heroes in the LOTR movies should have maintained moral superiority rather than descending into violence. I found Denethor's running jump in flames in Minas Tirith to be a little gratuitous and unecessary. And Gandalf's line about "thus passes Denethor son of Ecthelion", or whatever it was, suddenly seemed to be inappropriate where it did not so in the book. Most likely because the same sense of horror, tragedy and loss is not present. It almost appears that movie Gandalf is glad to see the end of him! Heroic, indeed. I can't recall seeing Aragorn decapitating the Mouth of Sauron... is this in the EE? But it certainly sounds horrific. Provoked or not, Aragorn should not have assaulted (let alone killed) an opponent who was not there to fight him, but only to taunt him. If Tolkien had intended Aragorn to be so violent, then surely he would have lopped off Bill Ferny's head as well! And why not Butterbur to boot? __________________ But Gwindor answered: 'The doom lies in yourself, not in your name'.

11-24-2006, 03:21 PM	#5
Aaron Haunting Spirit Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: England Posts: 96	Most disturbing scene? Probably the part in Two Towers when Faramirs men are kicking Gollum around. Why exactly were they doing that?

11-24-2006, 04:46 PM	#7
Rikae Mellifluous Maia Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: A glade open to the stars, deep in Nan Elmoth Posts: 3,489	The only thing I found disturbing in an inappropriate way was Denethor's death scene. It appears that Gandalf, rather than Denethor, is reponsible for his death; plus, having him run out in flames makes it seem almost silly when it should be an extremely tragic, serious scene. I agree that it makes Gandalf's line seem inappropriate, as well. It should have been a disturbing scene, but the disrepectful/somewhat absurd way it was handled made it disturbing in another way. The Smeagol/Deagol fight is very disturbing, but I wouldn't want it to be otherwise. The scene is inherently horrifying and ought to be filmed that way, so the horror of it is felt. I felt the story called for a scene where the relative innocence of the hobbits beforehand, the lure of the ring, and the suddeness and insanity were apparent; that's what I saw, and so I consider it "appropriately" disturbing, if you catch my drift. The scene where Faramir's men beat Gollum didn't really strike me as particularly disturbing (no pun intended), because I assumed Gollum struggled/bit etc., and we know what nasssty sharp teeth he has. Aragorn killing the MOS also didn't because, honestly, I didn't really see the movie MOS as a human in his own right, but as a sort of zombie (right or wrong) and it seemed plausible that Aragorn would stop it from saying things that would cause the men to lose heart. I might be wrong (I realise that the MOS in the book was in fact human), but I felt that in the context of the movie, it made sense.