The Lord of the Bible?

[Raynor]

There is one other parallel I was pondering on lately: Mindolluin and the holy of holies. Both are approached by the priest alone (Tolkien reffered to Numenorean kings as being priests as well) and both contain a special manifestation of divinity (seeing that the white tree was linked through Nimloth, Celeborn and Galathilion to Telperion). Acknolwedging that this is not a temple, Tolkien states:

Originally Posted by Letter #156

It later appears that there had been a 'hallow' on Mindolluin, only approachable by the King, where he had anciently offered thanks and praise on behalf of his people; but it had been forgotten. It was re-entered by Aragorn, and there he found a sapling of the White Tree, and replanted it in the Court of the Fountain. It is to be presumed that with the reemergence of the lineal priest kings (of whom Luthien the Blessed Elf-maiden was a foremother) the worship of God would be renewed, and His Name (or title) be again more often heard.

Originally Posted by Lal

I can honestly say that Christian joy does not have the monopoly on this kind of emotion, and many non-Christians will agree.

There is a big difference between "everyday" joy, to which you seemed to have related to in your previous post, and this sort of joy. Secondly, I haven't argued that this is something unique to Christianity, but, together with other refferences, arguing against your statement that Tolkien didn't have a message.

Now we know that for some already it is Christian, and that's fine of course, but we've still not had any of the hard evidence promised early on.

Hard evidenced? Promised? By who? As far as I am concerned, this is still an open debate and I am looking forward to keep learning.

What I want to see is something which is unequivocally Christian symbolism which this is not.

I have this question for you: can you point to one instance where it has been argued that the identified possible parallel is uniquely particular to Christianity? The most that I personally asked is to refute the weight/significance of whatever parallels were presented, and/or to present other significant parallels in other systems of beliefes. Lal, if you can't answer this above question positively, then it seems to me that you made the longest non sequitur I witnessed on this site. As it has been argued my others and myself, there is little if anything in Christianity that is absolutely unique, so, to me, your repeated request/critique of this kind doesn't seem to be on point.

[Lalwendë]

Originally Posted by Raynor

There is a big difference between "everyday" joy, to which you seemed to have related to in your previous post, and this sort of joy. Secondly, I haven't argued that this is something unique to Christianity, but, together with other refferences, arguing against your statement that Tolkien didn't have a message.

But your first statement here suggests that you have said that this is unique?

Originally Posted by Raynor

I have this question for you: can you point to one instance where it has been argued that the identified possible parallel is uniquely particular to Christianity?

Yes, see above Joy. Also in the case of Pity. Also in the Apocalypse/Ragnarok discussion. Also Eucatastrophe.

As it has been argued my others and myself, there is little if anything in Christianity that is absolutely unique, so, to me, your repeated request/critique of this kind doesn't seem to be on point.

Well I have to honestly say that this is not how posts have read. People have put forward ideas and when presented with evidence that these things are as likely something else entirely, other posters have either got upset or claimed that certain things are indeed unique to Christianity and that other people cannot possibly understand those concepts which is a bit much really.

[Raynor]

Originally Posted by Lal

But your first statement here suggests that you have said that this is unique?

So, even if I stated explicitly several times that I am not looking for something uniquely Christian, even if I didn't use any restrictive qualifier, you still persist on this line of argument? When on the same page you repeated the "unicity" critique, I considered that in my reply as a strawman of my argument, a misrepresentation. As I already stated, in that post I was merely pointing out the existence of what I believed was a moral message, and my refference wasn't anymore restrictive that the original text of the letter was.

Yes, see above Joy. Also in the case of Pity. Also in the Apocalypse/Ragnarok discussion. Also Eucatastrophe.

Well, maybe it's the late hour, mabye the fact that I am not a native English speaker, but where are the restrictive qualifiers you are reffering to in those cases?

Anyway, what do you think of my comparison of Mindolluin? I would be quite interested to know if other religions have a similar setting/event. There is also a refference to Meneltarma in UT that I think might be interesting for our discussion:

Originally Posted by Description of the island of Numenor, Part two: The Second Age, Unfinished Tales

Near to the centre of the Mittalmar stood the tall mountain called the Meneltarma, Pillar of the Heavens, sacred to the worship of Eru Iluvatar; ... and no other likeness of a temple did the Numenoreans possess in all the days of their grace, until the coming of Sauron. There no tool or weapon had ever been borne; and there none might speak any word, save the King only. Thrice only in each year the King spoke, offering prayer for the coming year at the Erukyerme in the first days of spring, praise of Eru Iluvatar at the Erulaitale in midsummeer, and thanksgiving to him at the Eruhantale at the end of autumn. At these times the King ascended the mountain on foot followed by a great concourse of the people, clad in white and garlanded, but silent.

[This is a less strong comparison than the previous one, seeing that it is a community event]

[littlemanpoet]

The thing is, Raynor, that it is basically accepted that Christian analogies can be found in Unfinished Tales, The Silmarillion, and various segments of the HoME series. The real issue is, what about LotR?

[Raynor]

Originally Posted by littlemanpoet

The thing is, Raynor, that it is basically accepted that Christian analogies can be found in Unfinished Tales, The Silmarillion, and various segments of the HoME series. The real issue is, what about LotR?

We're in the midst of finding that out