The Fellowship of the Fourth Age (Part 1): A New Beginning Discussion Thread

[Firefoot]

Johari's going to be somewhere between neutral and opposed, I think. She certainly won't be welcoming them with open arms.

[Undómë]

A quick question - can you give me an estimate of how many women and children are in the slave escapee party? What would be a good number to assume?

Brenna has been a slave for a long time - she will greet the fellowship with a misxture of fear and hope once she sees how they've rescued the two children.

I don't think she's at the place where she can consider what it means to be free, and so she would see being under the protection of/subject to a good lord/ruler/decision maker as being a right move for her.

[Nogrod]

My save #199 is filled... at last.

A quick question - can you give me an estimate of how many women and children are in the slave escapee party? What would be a good number to assume?

I think this was discussed in the planning phase already... So check from there, if no one remembers that out right.

[Durelin]

A quick question - can you give me an estimate of how many women and children are in the slave escapee party? What would be a good number to assume?

Hmm... Well, should we assume that more men would have been able to escape, or more women and children? Perhaps more men were the 'force' in the escape, and so more likely to be killed or recaptured in the escape because they made sure the others could escape? Or perhaps more men escaped because they were 'stronger?' Or perhaps more men escaped because there are more male slaves working on the plantations? Or, vice versa (more women and/or children escaped for that reason).

I think anything can go. Perhaps we should say there are more women and children together than men, but men out number women?

We could say there are 37 women and children, and 23 men. Out of the women and children, 9 women and 7 children can and are willing to fight. Or something like that. Though I suppose it also depends what we determine 'children' are. What age makes a boy a man, a girl a woman? Perhaps as early as sixteen, considering??

I think I might be making this more difficult than it really is.

[Nogrod]

Yeah. Is Adnan "a man"?

Or some others sharing his stature?

A mod-decision here would be worthwhile as we close the action / meeting...

[Brinniel]

perhaps more men escaped because there are more male slaves working on the plantations?

Keeping in mind the patterns of the history of society in RL, I always thought that certain aspects of ME history would be similar. If I remember correctly, in real history the percentage of female slaves has always been much higher than males. Of course, you do have a point- it's more likely that the males were doing the most physical labor, working in the plantations.

Anyways, let me see if I can get to what I'm trying to say....

We could say there are 37 women and children, and 23 men. Out of the women and children, 9 women and 7 children can and are willing to fight.

I kind of have to disagree that there would be more women/children. Though there are more female slaves, few would be required to do the more physical tasks that the men must do. Most likely they'd do tasks that would fit the role of women- cooking, caring for children, etc (of course there are exceptions for the younger, stronger women such as Shae). Anyways, since their tasks are less exhausting, the women are probably more accepting of their position as slaves and less willing to risk their lives to escape. I would imagine very few children attempting escape. No mother would risk their child's life like that. All the children that have escaped are most likely orphans, who really don't have anyone to care for them, and they should be capable to escape on their own (even if barely). Though it is likely more men would die in the process of escape, I think there would be twice the amount of men than women escaping in the first place. And don't forget we're also including the fifteen experienced ex-slaves (14 men + Shae). My guess is that the numbers would be around (this is including the fifteen) 37 men, 21 women, and 7 children (children being 11-15 -I assume there wouldn't be children any younger than that). We do have 65 ex-slaves total, right?

Remember, these ex-slaves are the most radical of slaves. Slavery is a horrible lifestyle, but at least as long as a slave is obedient, they have a chance to survive. By escaping, all these ex-slaves put their lives on the line. Though few may be skilled in weaponry, because they managed to escape in the first place, almost all the slaves should be capable of fighting. Exceptions are but not limited to the oldest of the ex-slaves, the youngest, the injured, the mentally incapacitated, and of course, those who aren't willing to participate (which would most likely be more women than men).

Anyways, I apologize if I just rambled- it's a bit late, but hopefully I did make some sense. Just my thought on the matter....

[Regin Hardhammer]

Nogrod,

I made the change. Thanks.

___________________________

But at the same time it would leave open the question of the ex-slaves freedom in the first place: so just changing a bad lord to a good one - where is the freedom if you are under someone's orders anyhow, good or bad??

I don't think most slaves felt like that. Morodr isn't like the Shire. It's too dangerous. It's a place where protection is needed to survive. Most slaves would want to find a good leader and live under his protection. Of course, they'd still have a lot more personal freedom than on the plantation.

Yeah, there might be a few rebels who wanted to be totally on their own. But those people would probably choose to live a life of wandering.

[Hilde Bracegirdle]

Originally Posted by Brinniel

- it's more likely that the males were doing the most physical labor, working in the plantations.

I don't know about this Brinniel. A woman's role is effected by the culture she lives in and her place in that society. I remember my utter astonishment to see road and construction crews in rural India, which were predominately female. For instance the men would mix cement and load it into pans that the women would carry up ladders and onto rooves etc. Another man or two would oversee and perform the more skilled part of the operation, but the women were definitely the grunt labor. On road crews the work was just as cruelling and the women would rig their infants in makesift hammocks by the side of the road while they 'manhandled' piles of gravel and stones. A lot of these women didn't seem very young or hardy to me, but they certainly had endurance!

It was an eye opener to me.

[Durelin]

Everyone has excellent points here, and I think the solution is simply to choose, since we determine what is appropriate for Mordor's inhabitants at this time in ME history.

Trust me, I can be quite the feminist, but I'm also often a stick-in-the-mud realist when it comes to roleplaying and storytelling in general - and right now I'm just trying to figure out what could be 'realistic' in the Fourth Age of ME Mordor.

At any rate, perhaps the wisest way to go is to say that all of the slaves will play a role, all will be armed with whatever they can find, but, the older slaves, the women who are not accustomed to fighting or would not like to fight (or who simply volunteer to look after and guard the children), and the younger children will be in charge of the traps and decoys we must plan. The men, women who are quite fine wielding a weapon, and the older children (which could range from even 13 or 14 on), will be taking up the 'better' weapons available, and being the core of the slave fighting force.

What those numbers are is relative, I think. But I think it is safe to assume that the majority of the slaves will be fighting. We could make it simple and approximate 40:20, or even 45:15, to get an idea.

Does anyone (or everyone) feel we need specific numbers? I don't know if that's quite important.