Frodo's change from book to film - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

MatthewM · 10-25-2006, 12:01 PM

Also notice on the journey to the Cross-roads, Frodo is the one who says to Sam the broken statue head of the King had a crown again as the sun shone on it. Why PJ gave this line to Sam in the films I can guess- because in PJ's film, by this point, Frodo was way more influenced by the Ring, possibly because of the changes to his character, and Frodo wouldn't really care enough to stop and say something hopeful like that.

Just found that interesting to note.

CSteefel · 10-25-2006, 12:28 PM

Yes, in general the film seems to portray Frodo as already hopelessly addicted and befuddled by the Ring. To the point where Sam is the only one with a clear head and the only one driving the Quest forward.

In the book, while Frodo experiences occasional fits of madness as a result of the Ring, he remains the driving force for the Quest, so he is the real hero of the story. He is the one who talks forcefully and skillfully to Faramir when they meet, he is the one who keeps Gollum alive, and he is the one who initially drives Shelob away with the Light of Earendil. In the movie, in contrast, Frodo seems to be a basket case very early on, so one loses all sense that this is a heroic Quest on the part of Frodo. This is handled skillfully in the book, since part of the dramatic tension comes from Frodo's awareness that he will be gradually transformed into Gollum, whereas in the movie, this happens early on. Frodo snaps out of it in the movie only enough to occasionally think of the Shire or happier times, but he does not show the nobility and wisdom that he has (especially in the dealings with Faramir) that he shows in the book.

ArathorofBarahir · 01-03-2007, 03:25 PM

I thought that the way Frodo was changed from the books to the film were a good change. Not that I was 100% satisified with the changes that were made to him and his lines but at least I wasn't disappointed.

Frodo Baggins · 01-04-2007, 07:59 PM

I agree wholly with CSteefel, PJ did a disservice to Frodo in the movies. Frodo is a very brave character throughout the books, but PJ turned him into a snivelling, whining basket case who has to be dragged by Gollum and pushed by Sam to Mordor.

Examples:

As I often say, PJ took away Frodo's finest moment at the Ford of Bruinen. In the book, he faces the wraiths across the river, draws his sword and says "By Elbereth and Luthien the Fair, you shall neither me nor the Ring." PJ has him in a stupor, wheezing in Arwen's lap. Cute, but not impressive.

On Weathertop, in the book, Frodo charges the Ringwraiths and manages to stab one (the Witch-King himself unless I am mistaken). PJ, again, takes away his fire and has Frodo whimper, drop his sword, run away and trip over his cloak. Pitiful, just pitiful.

And Book Frodo would never had chosen Gollum over Sam or told Sam to go away. To me that was the greatest travesty of any changes to the story.

Boromir88 · 01-04-2007, 08:19 PM

Frodo starts out as a very brave and admirable person in the movies. Somebody that you do see strength in. From The Shire scene, he learns all about the Ring, then tells Gandalf 'What must I do?' A very good moment for Frodo as he shows he is stepping away from his comfortable home in The Shire and will bear the Ring (at least for the time being).

Then at the Council of Elrond when amongst the arguing he steps up again and says 'I will take it.' Both instances show Frodo's strength of sacrificing his own comfortable life, and putting the fate of Middle-earth literally on his shoulders. He did something no one else seemed to have the guts to want to do, and that was to take the Ring to Mount Doom. (As a side note, I do sorely miss Bilbo's presence at the Council and miss his heartfelt proposal of taking the Ring)

However, since those two moments there's not much to praise Frodo about. He doesn't show really any of these qualities again through the rest of the movie. They just see him as a pathetic weakling that if it wasn't for Sam then the quest would have failed. Now there's no doubt that Sam was a key factor in keeping Frodo going, but if it wasn't for Frodo Sam would have failed! Aye, that's the truth. They both kept eachohter going, and you don't see that in the movies.

It gets to such absurdity where people posted threads about Sam should just kill Frodo because he's useless and everyone would be much better off. Sam deserves more praise than what he got, Frodo deserves none of it because he's a whiny baby. And all this is what you feel when you watch Frodo in the movies. He starts out as a strong, brave, determined character, but that all fades away and is forgotten at the latest by The Two Towers.

Nogrod · 01-05-2007, 12:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boromir88

And all this is what you feel when you watch Frodo in the movies. He starts out as a strong, brave, determined character, but that all fades away and is forgotten at the latest by The Two Towers.

Maybe that's PJ's way of trying to bring the role of the Ring forward, how it consumes Frodo and makes him weak? I have many objections to PJ's handling of things in the movie, but making Frodo a bit more vulnerable to the temptation and corruption of the Ring is not one of them.

Boromir88 · 01-05-2007, 12:46 PM

As much as I would like to hear you say 'Boro you are perfectly right and you know best,' I just can't make you do that.

As this is completely opinionated, it's a matter of personal like and dislike (couldn't you just say though that I am absolutely right?

)

Anyway, I see your point, however I think a skilled director could show the agony and power the Ring had over Frodo without making him a total weak whiner that falls down anytime something scares him. Tolkien displays the torment Frodo went through, yet makes him an admirable and strong-willed character. Any director worth half his salt could have effectively done the same thing. There's nothing wrong with Jackson attempting to do what he did, but when people get the wrong idea and just see Frodo as a pathetic useless weakling that needs to die (which is the impression people have gotten), Jackson missed his mark in my eyes.

littlemanpoet · 01-07-2007, 06:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Maybe that's PJ's way of trying to bring the role of the Ring forward, how it consumes Frodo and makes him weak? I have many objections to PJ's handling of things in the movie, but making Frodo a bit more vulnerable to the temptation and corruption of the Ring is not one of them.

I would be more impressed by this argument if Frodo had been depicted as strong, for the Ring's power over a strong Frodo would be more convincing than over a weak Frodo.

Frodo's Elvishness is another aspect from the Books that is pretty much gone in the movies. His Elvishness is in my mind his strength of spirit; but PJ reduces the spiritual battle to a psychological one. A shame.

MatthewM · 01-07-2007, 05:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boromir88

However, since those two moments there's not much to praise Frodo about. He doesn't show really any of these qualities again through the rest of the movie. They just see him as a pathetic weakling that if it wasn't for Sam then the quest would have failed. Now there's no doubt that Sam was a key factor in keeping Frodo going, but if it wasn't for Frodo Sam would have failed! Aye, that's the truth. They both kept eachohter going, and you don't see that in the movies.

You forgot to mention one of Frodo's bravest highlights- his decision to leave The Fellowship and venture out on his own to continue his path from Amon Hen. No doubt that his weakness was shown way too early, though.

CSteefel · 01-13-2007, 12:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frodo Baggins

I agree wholly with CSteefel, PJ did a disservice to Frodo in the movies. Frodo is a very brave character throughout the books, but PJ turned him into a snivelling, whining basket case who has to be dragged by Gollum and pushed by Sam to Mordor.

Examples:

As I often say, PJ took away Frodo's finest moment at the Ford of Bruinen. In the book, he faces the wraiths across the river, draws his sword and says "By Elbereth and Luthien the Fair, you shall neither me nor the Ring." PJ has him in a stupor, wheezing in Arwen's lap. Cute, but not impressive.

On Weathertop, in the book, Frodo charges the Ringwraiths and manages to stab one (the Witch-King himself unless I am mistaken). PJ, again, takes away his fire and has Frodo whimper, drop his sword, run away and trip over his cloak. Pitiful, just pitiful.

And Book Frodo would never had chosen Gollum over Sam or told Sam to go away. To me that was the greatest travesty of any changes to the story.

Agreed, agreed, and agreed. I had forgotten about these examples. Especially the last, this is completely out of character to the Frodo in the book.

I remember back in the late 60s, the bumper stickers or T-shirts that said "Frodo Lives"--a clear recognition of the noble sacrifice made by Frodo. If somebody only saw the PJ films, this would never occur to them...

Lotrelf · 04-13-2014, 12:55 AM

I agree with others here. There's a very thin line between weak and vulnerable, and movies seemed to be crossing the line. Frodo Was vulnerable but he was NOT weak. People speak of the "unknown" Frodo that doesn't belong to the Books and bash him.

Pervinca Took · 04-13-2014, 04:45 AM

I was watching "Hobitit" recently on YouTube (a Finnish dramatisation of the hobbitocentric parts of LOTR, adapted from a stage play and televised in Finland in 1993) and wondering whether Peter Jackson might have seen and been influenced by it. Although the Frodo in this is much maturer than PJ's, he does seem more passive than in the book. Not just at Weathertop, but also in the Barrow.

10-25-2006, 12:01 PM	#1
MatthewM Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: New York Posts: 628	Also notice on the journey to the Cross-roads, Frodo is the one who says to Sam the broken statue head of the King had a crown again as the sun shone on it. Why PJ gave this line to Sam in the films I can guess- because in PJ's film, by this point, Frodo was way more influenced by the Ring, possibly because of the changes to his character, and Frodo wouldn't really care enough to stop and say something hopeful like that. Just found that interesting to note. __________________ "Loud and clear it sounds in the valleys of the hills...and then let all the foes of Gondor flee!" -Boromir, The Fellowship of the Ring

01-03-2007, 03:25 PM	#3
ArathorofBarahir Wight Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Crickhallow Posts: 247	I thought that the way Frodo was changed from the books to the film were a good change. Not that I was 100% satisified with the changes that were made to him and his lines but at least I wasn't disappointed. __________________ King of the Dead: The dead do not suffer the living to pass. Aragorn: You will suffer me.

01-04-2007, 07:59 PM	#4
Frodo Baggins Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Bag-End, Under-Hill, Hobbiton-across-the Water Posts: 606	I agree wholly with CSteefel, PJ did a disservice to Frodo in the movies. Frodo is a very brave character throughout the books, but PJ turned him into a snivelling, whining basket case who has to be dragged by Gollum and pushed by Sam to Mordor. Examples: As I often say, PJ took away Frodo's finest moment at the Ford of Bruinen. In the book, he faces the wraiths across the river, draws his sword and says "By Elbereth and Luthien the Fair, you shall neither me nor the Ring." PJ has him in a stupor, wheezing in Arwen's lap. Cute, but not impressive. On Weathertop, in the book, Frodo charges the Ringwraiths and manages to stab one (the Witch-King himself unless I am mistaken). PJ, again, takes away his fire and has Frodo whimper, drop his sword, run away and trip over his cloak. Pitiful, just pitiful. And Book Frodo would never had chosen Gollum over Sam or told Sam to go away. To me that was the greatest travesty of any changes to the story. __________________ "I'm your huckleberry....that's just my game."

01-04-2007, 08:19 PM	#5
Boromir88 Laconic Loreman Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: USA Posts: 7,521	Frodo starts out as a very brave and admirable person in the movies. Somebody that you do see strength in. From The Shire scene, he learns all about the Ring, then tells Gandalf 'What must I do?' A very good moment for Frodo as he shows he is stepping away from his comfortable home in The Shire and will bear the Ring (at least for the time being). Then at the Council of Elrond when amongst the arguing he steps up again and says 'I will take it.' Both instances show Frodo's strength of sacrificing his own comfortable life, and putting the fate of Middle-earth literally on his shoulders. He did something no one else seemed to have the guts to want to do, and that was to take the Ring to Mount Doom. (As a side note, I do sorely miss Bilbo's presence at the Council and miss his heartfelt proposal of taking the Ring) However, since those two moments there's not much to praise Frodo about. He doesn't show really any of these qualities again through the rest of the movie. They just see him as a pathetic weakling that if it wasn't for Sam then the quest would have failed. Now there's no doubt that Sam was a key factor in keeping Frodo going, but if it wasn't for Frodo Sam would have failed! Aye, that's the truth. They both kept eachohter going, and you don't see that in the movies. It gets to such absurdity where people posted threads about Sam should just kill Frodo because he's useless and everyone would be much better off. Sam deserves more praise than what he got, Frodo deserves none of it because he's a whiny baby. And all this is what you feel when you watch Frodo in the movies. He starts out as a strong, brave, determined character, but that all fades away and is forgotten at the latest by The Two Towers. __________________ Fenris Penguin

01-05-2007, 12:46 PM	#7
Boromir88 Laconic Loreman Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: USA Posts: 7,521	As much as I would like to hear you say 'Boro you are perfectly right and you know best,' I just can't make you do that. As this is completely opinionated, it's a matter of personal like and dislike (couldn't you just say though that I am absolutely right? ) Anyway, I see your point, however I think a skilled director could show the agony and power the Ring had over Frodo without making him a total weak whiner that falls down anytime something scares him. Tolkien displays the torment Frodo went through, yet makes him an admirable and strong-willed character. Any director worth half his salt could have effectively done the same thing. There's nothing wrong with Jackson attempting to do what he did, but when people get the wrong idea and just see Frodo as a pathetic useless weakling that needs to die (which is the impression people have gotten), Jackson missed his mark in my eyes. __________________ Fenris Penguin

10-25-2006, 12:28 PM	#2
CSteefel Wight Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 204	Yes, in general the film seems to portray Frodo as already hopelessly addicted and befuddled by the Ring. To the point where Sam is the only one with a clear head and the only one driving the Quest forward. In the book, while Frodo experiences occasional fits of madness as a result of the Ring, he remains the driving force for the Quest, so he is the real hero of the story. He is the one who talks forcefully and skillfully to Faramir when they meet, he is the one who keeps Gollum alive, and he is the one who initially drives Shelob away with the Light of Earendil. In the movie, in contrast, Frodo seems to be a basket case very early on, so one loses all sense that this is a heroic Quest on the part of Frodo. This is handled skillfully in the book, since part of the dramatic tension comes from Frodo's awareness that he will be gradually transformed into Gollum, whereas in the movie, this happens early on. Frodo snaps out of it in the movie only enough to occasionally think of the Shire or happier times, but he does not show the nobility and wisdom that he has (especially in the dealings with Faramir) that he shows in the book.

04-13-2014, 12:55 AM	#11
Lotrelf Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Mar 2014 Posts: 265	I agree with others here. There's a very thin line between weak and vulnerable, and movies seemed to be crossing the line. Frodo Was vulnerable but he was NOT weak. People speak of the "unknown" Frodo that doesn't belong to the Books and bash him. __________________ A short saying oft contains much wisdom. ~Sophocles

04-13-2014, 04:45 AM	#12
Pervinca Took Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: The Treetops, C/O Great Smials Posts: 5,035	I was watching "Hobitit" recently on YouTube (a Finnish dramatisation of the hobbitocentric parts of LOTR, adapted from a stage play and televised in Finland in 1993) and wondering whether Peter Jackson might have seen and been influenced by it. Although the Frodo in this is much maturer than PJ's, he does seem more passive than in the book. Not just at Weathertop, but also in the Barrow. __________________ "Sit by the firelight's glow; tell us an old tale we know. Tell of adventures strange and rare; never to change, ever to share! Stories we tell will cast their spell, now and for always." Last edited by Pervinca Took; 04-13-2014 at 05:38 AM.