Why is it so difficult? - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Lhunardawen · 10-28-2006, 02:27 AM

This coming from one who had just recently tried to re-read the Silm completely...and failed...

Too many names. At first it was easy, when you could distinguish Olwë and Elwë from Finwë and Ingwë and you were about done, but when Tolkien started expounding on almost everyone's life stories (naturally inevitable) and kept adding new names to the mix it started to get kind of confusing. Especially when those pesky Mortals joined in the fun...

Also, there's something about the different literary style that's not too...captivating. Granted, LotR also tends to be on the boring side, but at least the conversations were a bit closer to home. And not everyone has English as a first language.

Reading Silm, though, was an excellent warm-up to crawling through Leviticus and Numbers and 1 Chronicles.

Rikae · 10-28-2006, 07:30 PM

I started reading the Silm right after I finished LOTR, at age eight. I was torn between being awestruck by the timespan and magnitude of the events being covered, and bored because the stories simply weren't told in the detailed manner of the LOTR - the style issue you mentioned. It made it very difficult for names to become characters and places I could visualize. I have the same problem with history: I enjoy it when it depicts the details of people's experience, but when it's condensed to the point of a list of names and generalizations, it does get tedious.
As for my Silm reading project, I lost the book halfway through. It's high time I bought another and finished it - it may not seem so difficult anymore!

Durelin · 10-30-2006, 09:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lal

A tip: photocopy the maps and family trees, use 'em as book marks and then you've a handy reference to refer to when you get confused with all these new names and places that Tolkien throws out at a rate of 100 per page (or it feels like that anyway).

That almost makes it sound like homework.

Actually, I enjoy looking at maps and family trees... I know this book has a bunch of family trees in the back: The Complete Guide to Middle-earth.

And then there's this awesome book for maps (which I know pio especially has suggested many times): The Atlas of Middle-earth.

The problem is, using so many books (okay, so only two, specifically) just to read one book makes one feel less like their reading it for fun, even if it is enjoyable.

In at least my copy of the Sil there is a glossary of names in the back, so at least that helps. Really, though, I find myself completely capable of reading about people even if I forget who they are, or reading about an event even though I have no real idea when it occured in relation to other events. But then when it comes to looking at the big picture, I'm at a complete loss. Is it about the big picture, though? Is there something that the Sil as a whole relates about ME, or is it just a lot of pieces of history, each relating to ME in their own ways? Is it incredibly cohesive, or can you read parts of it separately (then, of course, you're not getting the big picture, but how important is the big picture?)?

Having too many names is a common complaint for not only the Sil but other fantasy books. One fantasy series in particular that I hear people complaining about a lot in the way is The Wheel of Time series by Robert Jordan, because there are so many different characters...

Holbytlass · 10-30-2006, 10:01 AM

Why is it so difficult?
It's laziness on my part. Ironically I like history-the whys and hows. But I've been out of school awhile and hate when I have to research or take notes on anything unless I really, really want to.

I read Silm once-and it was a struggle. I read it for entertainment value and because of its choppiness it didn't hold my attention. Don't get me wrong, I came through with a better understanding of the background to LOTR and there were a few good stories within it but to recommend it or read it through again, no thank you!

Boromir88 · 10-30-2006, 10:21 AM

I was kind of like Fea and morm combined, and this is probably why I only read the Sil completely through once.

It's really a story I didn't enjoy, or not in the way that I enjoy Lord of the Ring. I think this is where the problem occurs of reading the Sil.

As morm says it feels incohesive. Yes, there's this timeline of events, but it's not really one set storyline like there is in LOTR. We also have to remember the manner in which The Sil was put together. As CT talks about, doing so was a huge and difficult task, as trying to fit together the best and most cohesive story as was possible. The Sil was more or less a collection of stories that took place over a long period of time. He wanted to put together the Sil into a rough timeline creating a clear story. But, it doesn't work to the same effect LOTR did, because it's a collection of mini stories.

I didn't get the same feel as I do when reading LOTR. LOTR there is a lot of progression as this is a story spanning a little over a year about Frodo's journey with the Ring and Aragorn's journey of becoming a King. Now there is some background and historical information, but it felt much more like a story and it was put together. This was easy to do, and to show developement and progress of the characters, because it focused around one story in a rather small amount of time.

With The Silmarillion, it is a history over several thousand years, so it feels choppy, I didn't feel as connected to the characters. I think Folwren referring to it as a history book fits in quite right. As The Sil is a group of stories spanning over a vast period of time...to do to The Sil what Tolkien did to LOTR would be virtually impossible.

Also as Fea put it, it's just so many facts and information to digest. To digest all that info I mean my mind would just simply explode. So, I treat The Sil more as something to refer to, if I'm looking for an argument to discuss/debate, rather than a story to sit down and read like LOTR.

Lalwendë · 10-30-2006, 11:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Durelin

That almost makes it sound like homework.

That's because it is.....Tolkien was not a teacher for nothing. He knew exactly how to keep us on his Straight Path....

Seriously though. There's no need to stress out over the Sil, as it does not have to be read as a 'novel', in fact its often better read in chunks or sections, even just in chapters, as Boromir88 and narfforc have suggested. Just select tales you like and read those to begin with, if that's something you're more comfortable with. Don't worry too much about all the names and places, just enjoy each story, as each one has its own narrative and structure, and each one is different.

MatthewM · 10-30-2006, 11:44 AM

Well, I haven't read the Silmarillion yet, but my friend who did isn't a fan. Like everyone else said, he thought it was 'alright'. I'll get around to reading it one day and judging for myself.

Lalwendë · 10-30-2006, 11:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MatthewM

Well, I haven't read the Silmarillion yet, but my friend who did isn't a fan. Like everyone else said, he thought it was 'alright'. I'll get around to reading it one day and judging for myself.

Give it a go, it's worth it!

My mate thinks its better than LotR, and I'm sure there are people here who would agree.

10-28-2006, 02:27 AM	#1
Lhunardawen Hauntress of the Havens Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: IN it, but not OF it Posts: 2,538	This coming from one who had just recently tried to re-read the Silm completely...and failed... Too many names. At first it was easy, when you could distinguish Olwë and Elwë from Finwë and Ingwë and you were about done, but when Tolkien started expounding on almost everyone's life stories (naturally inevitable) and kept adding new names to the mix it started to get kind of confusing. Especially when those pesky Mortals joined in the fun... Also, there's something about the different literary style that's not too...captivating. Granted, LotR also tends to be on the boring side, but at least the conversations were a bit closer to home. And not everyone has English as a first language. Reading Silm, though, was an excellent warm-up to crawling through Leviticus and Numbers and 1 Chronicles. Last edited by Lhunardawen; 10-28-2006 at 02:30 AM.

10-30-2006, 10:01 AM	#4
Holbytlass Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: May 2003 Location: The Party Tree Posts: 1,042	Why is it so difficult? It's laziness on my part. Ironically I like history-the whys and hows. But I've been out of school awhile and hate when I have to research or take notes on anything unless I really, really want to. I read Silm once-and it was a struggle. I read it for entertainment value and because of its choppiness it didn't hold my attention. Don't get me wrong, I came through with a better understanding of the background to LOTR and there were a few good stories within it but to recommend it or read it through again, no thank you! __________________ Holby is an actual flesh-and-blood person, right? Not, say a sock-puppet of Nilp’s, by any chance? ~Nerwen, WWCIII

10-30-2006, 10:21 AM	#5
Boromir88 Laconic Loreman Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: USA Posts: 7,521	I was kind of like Fea and morm combined, and this is probably why I only read the Sil completely through once. It's really a story I didn't enjoy, or not in the way that I enjoy Lord of the Ring. I think this is where the problem occurs of reading the Sil. As morm says it feels incohesive. Yes, there's this timeline of events, but it's not really one set storyline like there is in LOTR. We also have to remember the manner in which The Sil was put together. As CT talks about, doing so was a huge and difficult task, as trying to fit together the best and most cohesive story as was possible. The Sil was more or less a collection of stories that took place over a long period of time. He wanted to put together the Sil into a rough timeline creating a clear story. But, it doesn't work to the same effect LOTR did, because it's a collection of mini stories. I didn't get the same feel as I do when reading LOTR. LOTR there is a lot of progression as this is a story spanning a little over a year about Frodo's journey with the Ring and Aragorn's journey of becoming a King. Now there is some background and historical information, but it felt much more like a story and it was put together. This was easy to do, and to show developement and progress of the characters, because it focused around one story in a rather small amount of time. With The Silmarillion, it is a history over several thousand years, so it feels choppy, I didn't feel as connected to the characters. I think Folwren referring to it as a history book fits in quite right. As The Sil is a group of stories spanning over a vast period of time...to do to The Sil what Tolkien did to LOTR would be virtually impossible. Also as Fea put it, it's just so many facts and information to digest. To digest all that info I mean my mind would just simply explode. So, I treat The Sil more as something to refer to, if I'm looking for an argument to discuss/debate, rather than a story to sit down and read like LOTR. __________________ Fenris Penguin

10-30-2006, 11:44 AM	#7
MatthewM Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: New York Posts: 628	Well, I haven't read the Silmarillion yet, but my friend who did isn't a fan. Like everyone else said, he thought it was 'alright'. I'll get around to reading it one day and judging for myself. __________________ "Loud and clear it sounds in the valleys of the hills...and then let all the foes of Gondor flee!" -Boromir, The Fellowship of the Ring

10-28-2006, 07:30 PM	#2
Rikae Mellifluous Maia Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: A glade open to the stars, deep in Nan Elmoth Posts: 3,489	I started reading the Silm right after I finished LOTR, at age eight. I was torn between being awestruck by the timespan and magnitude of the events being covered, and bored because the stories simply weren't told in the detailed manner of the LOTR - the style issue you mentioned. It made it very difficult for names to become characters and places I could visualize. I have the same problem with history: I enjoy it when it depicts the details of people's experience, but when it's condensed to the point of a list of names and generalizations, it does get tedious. As for my Silm reading project, I lost the book halfway through. It's high time I bought another and finished it - it may not seem so difficult anymore!