Did Saruman Believe He Could Master The One Ring?

[Raynor]

I think that Gandalf would make a great error of judgement to believe that the ringbearer would hold a higher status than the ring in Sauron's mind, so as to not even mention the ring, but mention the ringbearer. If Gandalf genuinely believed Sauron expected to find the ring in Isengard, he would definitely have said something like "He has no ring to give, he has no captive to send. He has no Stone to see with, and cannot answer the summons". To underline, if even necessary, the importance of the ring to Sauron, compared to anything else, I will give these two quotes:

Originally Posted by The shadow of the past, FotR

So he is seeking it, seeking it, and all his thought is bent on it. It is his great hope and our great fear

Originally Posted by The last debate, RotK

If he regains it, your valour is vain, and his victory will be swift and complete: so complete that none can foresee the end of it while this world lasts. If it is destroyed, then he will fall; and his fall will be so low that none can foresee his arising ever again.

With all this emphasis on the ring, why wouldn't Sauron send all his nazgul, why only one, when all his victory would be at hand?

[The Saucepan Man]

I repeat ...

Originally Posted by The Saucepan Man

In any event, no one asserting that Sauron did not believe Pippin to be the Ringbearer has put forward any convincing explanation as to why Sauron (to Gandalf's mind) would be so obsessed with this Hobbit and why he would want him so urgently, if not only for information.

[Raynor]

In Unfinished Tales, The hunt for the ring, it is stated that Sauron was in great haste and fear when he heard that his enemies have captured Gollum. Apparently, he fears for anyone who has access to those with relevant information about the ring. Sure, he wants information for himself, but he also wants to hold off others from obtaining that information. I think that in this "others" we can safely include Saruman, of whom Sauron became aware that his servants waylaid or misled his own agents.

[Boromir88]

Can someone please explain to me why speculating about what Gandalf said is somehow less compelling or convincing than speculating about what Sauron thought?

By saying it's Gandalf's speculation, I'm actually implying both. Bottom line is we don't know what Sauron thought, we only know what Gandalf thought he thought. So, it would be incorrect for anyone to assert what Sauron truly thought (through Gandalf's thought), because we don't know what he actually thought except for what he tells Pippin through the Palantir. Which, what he tells Pippin through the Palantir seems to be:

1. He and Pippin will meet again.
2. He believes Saruman has something that isn't his to have.

Edit: Cross-posted with Raynor:

True, but according to Gandalf Sauron didn't just want Pippin for information, he actually believed he (or Saruman) had something else of importance that wasn't Saruman's to have. And I think we can say Gandalf's speculation in this case is accurate because we know what Sauron said to Pippin through the Palantir and he believed Saruman had something that wasn't his, and that Sauron will send for it.

[Raynor]

I don't think that Sauron believed Pippin to be the ringbearer. For one thing, the witch-king must have told him about his meeting with Frodo. As we know from Reader's Companion quote from Marquette, page 180, which has been presented several times on this site, the witch-king believed Frodo to be very powerful, able to defeat a barrow-wight and to even withstand the witch-king himself, almost giving him a mortal wound. Pippin is a _far_ cry from this.

[Boromir88]

I'm sure the Witch-King did give Sauron an account of Frodo and the whole adventure leading up to his horse being washed away in the flood. But, as was discussed earlier in this thread...did Sauron get a good image of what Frodo looked like through the WK's description (if indeed there even was a description given)? Would Sauron be able to tell if Pippin was Frodo or not? The phantom showed quite reasonably that the palantir did not paint a 'clear picture'...again Sauron didn't even know the palantir was out of Isengard anymore...how clear could the picture have been? How clear of a picture did the Witch-King get of Frodo? Afterall the encounter took place at night. Why would Sauron want to not only remember Pippin's face, but Pippin's voice? The question still remains what else is it that Sauron wanted from Saruman? Or what he wanted from Pippin? What else did Saruman's captive have that Sauron would want immediately?

[Raynor]

I was referring to Frodo's inner strength, not to his phisical characteristics. He was able do resist the witch-king quite well. Gandalf says that those with a will of adamant can resist the lure of the palantir towards Barad-dur; Aragorn is able to resist Sauron in his wrestle through the palantir, and, according to the source quoted above, the witch-king had more fear of Frodo than of Aragorn. All the while, Pippin falls like a deck of cards.

[Boromir88]

If that's the case, would Sauron think that a hobbit could seriously contend with his own will?

All the while, Pippin falls like a deck of cards.

We actually don't see the effects looking into the palantir and the mind to mind transfer Pippin had with Sauron until after the fact. Pippin seems fairly composed when he gets Sauron's message, although he is filled with fear, he is able to remember what Sauron told him to say and he does answer Sauron's question of who he is. He doesn't show the effects until after the use of the Palantir.

Aragorn is able to resist Sauron in his wrestle through the palantir

Comparing Aragorn's will and ability to wrestle away control from Sauron through the palantir to Pippin's use of it just isn't fair. Aragorn was 1. the rightful user of the Palantir and 2. the farther away the palantir is from Barad-dur the weaker Sauron's will is.

Gandalf says that those with a will of adamant can resist the lure of the palantir towards Barad-dur

I don't think Frodo had such a will. Frodo put on the Ring several times (which seems to me that he didn't have a will of adamant since he couldn't resist the desire to put on the ring). So he very well could have found an urge to look into the palantir had he ever come across one. If we are to even take Gandalf's words as truth, did Frodo have such a will that he could resist any sort of urges? I doubt it, as again he did put on the Ring on several occasions, but more importantly did Sauron believe it?

and, according to the source quoted above, the witch-king had more fear of Frodo than of Aragorn.

Your mis-use of the quote is simply astounding. It doesn't say the Witch-King feared Frodo, because he was Frodo. The Witch-King feared Frodo because Frodo had a blade that could essentially destroy him:

Escaping a wound that would have been as deadly to him as the Mordor -knife to Frodo (as was proved at the end), he withdrew and hid for a while, out of doubt and fear both of Aragorn and especially of Frodo. But fear of Sauron , and the forces of Sauron's will was the stronger.

The Witch-King didn't fear Frodo because he felt intimidated by Frodo's physical traits, or any other reason other than the fact that Frodo carried a blade that could cause his end, and indeed did end up causing his end.