Battle of the Somme 90th Anniversary July 1st - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

William Cloud Hicklin · 11-07-2006, 10:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by davem

Re: Dancing amid the Hemlocks.

What we have to say is that if the event is supposed to have taken place in November 1917 it didn't happen exactly as Tolkien says it did (no flowers & Edith dancing in an overcoat!)

Carpenter states the event took place after the birth of John in Nov 1917, while Garth in the article states it was in spring of 1917.

Hmmmm... perhaps the event in the spring was the cause of the birth of John in November......

davem · 07-08-2007, 12:53 AM

http://sacnoths.blogspot.com/2007/07...-in-somme.html

Lalwendë · 07-08-2007, 08:54 AM

What an interesting find! We were so lucky that fate didn't have it in for Tolkien - we would never have known his name let alone anything else - and all that this entails such as no Downs, no friendships forged on Tolkien - I would not know davem, or any of you...that is a very sobering thought. How fates decades down the line can rest on something like that...

Lalwendë · 08-02-2007, 03:21 PM

I was looking up some history of the 55th West Lancashire Division during WWI (more here if interested: http://www.1914-1918.net/55div.htm ) and I was drawn onto other paths as you do online.

I found myself at the website of the Lancashire Fusiliers' Museum: http://www.fusiliersmuseum-lancashir...tory_hall.html

On their Hall of Fame page you'll find some bits about Tolkien and GB Smith. Interestingly, they are keen to include in their collection any items linking to either of the two men. Obviously such items would be a considerable attraction for a small museum (and one which is seeking to move to better premises) so if anyone knows of any Tolkien/Smith/WWI artefacts that might be loaned or even donated please get in touch with them!

And also of interest, here is a website run by former servicemen of the Lancashire Fusilers, and the link to the hall of fame (and infamy, as it includes a scary serial killer!) http://www.lancs-fusiliers.co.uk/FamousinfamousLFs.htm

It's interesting to wonder who might have been a comrade of Tolkien's, looking at those who were his contemporaries - including one dearly loved and missed British Icon, Jack Howarth AKA Albert Tatlock from Coronation Street!

Elmo · 08-02-2007, 03:43 PM

My great-grandfather was at the Somme in the Black Watch. He got shot up so badly they thought he was dead. They actually wrote his name in a book of the fallen but he survived though he limped for the rest of his life. It's hard to imagine nowadays, the crap that the lads on the Western Front had to put up with. Puts it all in perspective.

davem · 09-16-2007, 01:18 AM

Another aspect of the horrors of war - http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/liv...#StartComments

Quote:

The make-up of British society had changed irrevocably - as Isie Russell-Stevenson discovered to her horror.

Towards the end of the war in 1918 she received a message to say that her husband, Hamilton, would be returning home from the Front.

Wearing her prettiest dress, Isie waited eagerly at the docks for his boat to arrive.

But the dreamed-of moment turned suddenly to nightmare.

Hamilton appeared on a stretcher, mangled and clearly dying. Isie took him home and nursed him and not long afterwards he died.

Can 't help thinking of the Marine recruiters in Farenheit 911 who went up to a guy in the street & asked if he wanted to enlist:

"I have a wife and kid." he told them.

"All the more reason to enlist." one replied.

davem · 10-28-2007, 07:47 AM

A new TV movie about the loss of Rudyard Kipling's son in WWI. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/liv...=1766&ito=1490
I was particularly struck by the poem Kipling wrote after Jack died. Anyone else reminded of the lament for Boromir?

'My Boy Jack' (1916)

'Have you news of my boy Jack?'
Not this tide.
'When d'you think that he'll come back?'
Not with this wind blowing, and this tide.

'Has any one else had word of him?'
Not this tide.
For what is sunk will hardly swim,
Not with this wind blowing, and this tide.

'Oh, dear, what comfort can I find?'
None this tide,
Nor any tide,
Except he did not shame his kind -
Not even with that wind blowing, and that tide.

Then hold your head up all the more,
This tide,
And every tide;
Because he was the son you bore,
And gave to that wind blowing and that tide!

07-08-2007, 12:53 AM	#2
davem Illustrious Ulair Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: In the home of lost causes, and forsaken beliefs, and unpopular names,and impossible loyalties Posts: 4,240	Makes you think http://sacnoths.blogspot.com/2007/07...-in-somme.html __________________ “Everything was an object. If you killed a dwarf you could use it as a weapon – it was no different to other large heavy objects."

07-08-2007, 08:54 AM	#3
Lalwendë A Mere Boggart Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: under the bed Posts: 4,737	What an interesting find! We were so lucky that fate didn't have it in for Tolkien - we would never have known his name let alone anything else - and all that this entails such as no Downs, no friendships forged on Tolkien - I would not know davem, or any of you...that is a very sobering thought. How fates decades down the line can rest on something like that... __________________ Gordon's alive!

08-02-2007, 03:21 PM	#4
Lalwendë A Mere Boggart Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: under the bed Posts: 4,737	I was looking up some history of the 55th West Lancashire Division during WWI (more here if interested: http://www.1914-1918.net/55div.htm ) and I was drawn onto other paths as you do online. I found myself at the website of the Lancashire Fusiliers' Museum: http://www.fusiliersmuseum-lancashir...tory_hall.html On their Hall of Fame page you'll find some bits about Tolkien and GB Smith. Interestingly, they are keen to include in their collection any items linking to either of the two men. Obviously such items would be a considerable attraction for a small museum (and one which is seeking to move to better premises) so if anyone knows of any Tolkien/Smith/WWI artefacts that might be loaned or even donated please get in touch with them! And also of interest, here is a website run by former servicemen of the Lancashire Fusilers, and the link to the hall of fame (and infamy, as it includes a scary serial killer!) http://www.lancs-fusiliers.co.uk/FamousinfamousLFs.htm It's interesting to wonder who might have been a comrade of Tolkien's, looking at those who were his contemporaries - including one dearly loved and missed British Icon, Jack Howarth AKA Albert Tatlock from Coronation Street! __________________ Gordon's alive!

08-02-2007, 03:43 PM	#5
Elmo Pittodrie Poltergeist Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: trying to find that warm and winding lane again Posts: 633	My great-grandfather was at the Somme in the Black Watch. He got shot up so badly they thought he was dead. They actually wrote his name in a book of the fallen but he survived though he limped for the rest of his life. It's hard to imagine nowadays, the crap that the lads on the Western Front had to put up with. Puts it all in perspective. __________________ As Beren looked into her eyes within the shadows of her hair, The trembling starlight of the skies he saw there mirrored shimmering.

10-28-2007, 07:47 AM	#7
davem Illustrious Ulair Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: In the home of lost causes, and forsaken beliefs, and unpopular names,and impossible loyalties Posts: 4,240	Not the Somme, but A new TV movie about the loss of Rudyard Kipling's son in WWI. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/liv...=1766&ito=1490 I was particularly struck by the poem Kipling wrote after Jack died. Anyone else reminded of the lament for Boromir? 'My Boy Jack' (1916) 'Have you news of my boy Jack?' Not this tide. 'When d'you think that he'll come back?' Not with this wind blowing, and this tide. 'Has any one else had word of him?' Not this tide. For what is sunk will hardly swim, Not with this wind blowing, and this tide. 'Oh, dear, what comfort can I find?' None this tide, Nor any tide, Except he did not shame his kind - Not even with that wind blowing, and that tide. Then hold your head up all the more, This tide, And every tide; Because he was the son you bore, And gave to that wind blowing and that tide! __________________ “Everything was an object. If you killed a dwarf you could use it as a weapon – it was no different to other large heavy objects."