Why take a body? Why make a Ring? - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

littlemanpoet · 11-12-2006, 03:28 PM

So the Valar (Ainur & Maiar), as non-incarnates, could & did influence incarnate (bodied) beings in Arda. The question of 'why take a body' still seems to have been adequately answered (to use SPM's rewording), to interact with incarnates.

The Valar could subcreate without being incarnate, at least at first. But could it perhaps be that after the initial forming of the structure of Arda, that ability was lost, or set aside?

I suppose it doesn't really matter: Melian chose to become incarnate so that she could love Thingol and have union with him, and give birth to Luthien and raise her, and set a destiny for Elves and Humans that none but Eru foresaw. Is this not subcreation for the purpose of enjoyment and sharing? But is it not more? ...because there's something of destiny in this now, which suggests something more powerful than mere enjoyment or sharing; but what?

To give the dark example, Sauron chose to become incarnate so that he could possess and control. Could he not do so without becoming incarnate? If so, why then take a body (back to the original question)? Why make a Ring?

11-12-2006, 03:28 PM	#24
littlemanpoet Itinerant Songster Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: The Edge of Faerie Posts: 7,066	So the Valar (Ainur & Maiar), as non-incarnates, could & did influence incarnate (bodied) beings in Arda. The question of 'why take a body' still seems to have been adequately answered (to use SPM's rewording), to interact with incarnates. The Valar could subcreate without being incarnate, at least at first. But could it perhaps be that after the initial forming of the structure of Arda, that ability was lost, or set aside? I suppose it doesn't really matter: Melian chose to become incarnate so that she could love Thingol and have union with him, and give birth to Luthien and raise her, and set a destiny for Elves and Humans that none but Eru foresaw. Is this not subcreation for the purpose of enjoyment and sharing? But is it not more? ...because there's something of destiny in this now, which suggests something more powerful than mere enjoyment or sharing; but what? To give the dark example, Sauron chose to become incarnate so that he could possess and control. Could he not do so without becoming incarnate? If so, why then take a body (back to the original question)? Why make a Ring?