WWJ XIII: 'Til Death Do We LARP

[Boromir88]

I have gone through Rune's posts. There are a few possibilities running through my head.

1) The wolves killed Rune to confuse us even further and continue us spiralling in circles. It may have worked better than they intended as it just so happens they kill the cobbler...so exactly how much info can we get out of Rune's posts?

2) The wolves as Lommy points out believed Rune was the seer and this would put a mark on Naria and Volo...as those seem to be the two people he 'suspected' the most. This begs the again, just exactly how much reliablity can we put in Rune's 'suspicions?'

I'm growing wary of Lommy over there whom is pushing the wolves must have believed Rune was the seer, and claims she knows exactly why he was killed...because of his comments. This rings some alarms in my head. Such narrow-minded thinking into believing only one 'right answer' is dangerous. If you are innocent, you should open your mind a bit.

I don't think I can get anything clarified further until I see something from Naria.

Edit: x-posted with Farael

[Diamond18]

This is how I see it:

Wolves seldom bluff quite as diabolically as Villagers think they do. The Wolves want to kill the seer, why would they waste their time killing Rune if they didn't think he was the seer? Sure, it could be a plot to make CoD look good and Naria look bad, but we won't know for sure unless we kill one of them.

I'm leaning towards killing Naria.

1. It makes the most sense, to me, that the wolves smelled a seer in Rune and they killed him.
2. CoD has been more active.

Now, as I said yesterDay, I know she has the flu. But this isn't really a good reason not to vote for her. In fact, it's a good reason, as we KNOW Naria will not be playing, participating, or thinking to the best of her abilities. We're not going to get the answers and contributions from her that we might normally expect. Frankly, if I had a bad flu I'd rather die than have to drag myself to the computer to mess around with werewolf. And just because she's sick doesn't mean she's not a wolf, ergo it's no good as an alibi. Sure, it explains why she's absent, but it doesn't have any bearing on what role she was assigned at the beginning.

If you don't want to kill Naria, then kill CoD, and we can put this Rune business to rest. That's what I think, anyway.

[Diamond18]

Therefore I think that the wolves killed Rune because of his relative silence, and possibly to frame Naria as a side-effect. I don’t think they would have killed him if Naria was a wolf, because as I just said, that’d mean the death of Naria

I think this is flawed logic. If Rune was the seer and knew about Naria, she was already a lost cause. The other two wolves wouuld be more concerned about saving their own skins by preventing Rune from dreaming any further, than they would be about protecting a Naria who was likely already doomed. Consider, from the wolves' point of view -- if Rune the Seer was allowed to continue speaking he would likely continue going after Naria (maybe even reveal and seal the deal) and every night he was allowed to dream he could potentially discover more wolves. The seer must die, even if it means sacrificing one wolf out of three.

And consider now our current discussions. We're debating whether or not Naria is a wolf. This is better for the wolves than having a seer around who can just outright say "Naria is a wolf, end of story, lynch her."

Now, I'm not saying I know this to be true. But I think the logic is good. What is logical and what is true is not always the same in Werewolf, but as I don't know any truths about the wolves and what they're thinking, I can only go by what I think is the most logical.

[CaptainofDespair]

*sighs*

Farael, I'm not going to answer your ridiculous post point by point, as there is no...well...point. I will say one thing, however. You, and quite a few others, have taken my first posts way out of context. And, those posts are the basis for nearly every accusation against me. I was simply playing around in character, as I was quite amused by being a Pompous Nobleman.

And further, I will not respond to any more accusations that stem from my in-character posting. It is simply far too silly to have questions of wolf-dom/cobbler-dom simply because I felt inclined to post as the character I chose to be.

If I was not so adamant about lynching Naria today, I would certainly be looking into you.

And on to that, I am inclined to agree with Diamond that we could lynch Naria on being absent. And since I believe her to be a wolf, I agree all the more.

I stand quite firm on my desire to vote for Naria. Although it is unlikely I will be steered from that course, I will not vote until later tomorrow.

[Durelin]

I'm sorry, Valier, if I might have touched a nerve.

Originally Posted by Valier

I believe that he may have put out false Seer hints to try and get the Seer to come out, if not why even bother saying something so Seeresque?

That is quite possible...that wasn't what I was addressing. The real issue is why he was killed, not what he was trying to do. If he was killed because the wolves thought he was the Seer, it is possible that he was actually correct in his suspicions, obviously to his dismay and downfall. Yes, your option is possible, but the only real reason you cited for it being possible were that Rune, as the Cobbler, wanted to help the wolves. Thus, your reasoning is illogical, even if your conclusion is possible. And I do apologize for the accusation of being "reactionary."

Originally Posted by Di

If you don't want to kill Naria, then kill CoD, and we can put this Rune business to rest. That's what I think, anyway.

I think lynching one of these two is an excellent idea, as I think we have a good chance of finding a wolf in one of them. And I know I will never be able to get this "Rune business" out of my head until it is settled. I would be up for lynching either one.

By the way, Durelin, Boro and CoD keep on interacting… see post 142 by Durelin

Interacting? In the post you cite, I am actually interacting with Valier, remarking on her ideas regarding why Rune was lynched. I was asking questions that involved CoD because frankly, the best way to help expand an idea is to ask questions...and it's the best way to figure something out if you don't completely understand something. And I responded again to Boro's explanation...how shocking. I at least wanted to let him know I had seen it and understood it. I'm sorry, but your accusation seems based largely on whose name is in bold in my post, and that bothers me.

[Farael]

Sorry for the double-post folks, I somehow managed to miss this.

Originally Posted by Durelin

Interacting? In the post you cite, I am actually interacting with Valier, remarking on her ideas regarding why Rune was lynched. I was asking questions that involved CoD because frankly, the best way to help expand an idea is to ask questions...and it's the best way to figure something out if you don't completely understand something. And I responded again to Boro's explanation...how shocking. I at least wanted to let him know I had seen it and understood it. I'm sorry, but your accusation seems based largely on whose name is in bold in my post, and that bothers me.

Well, Durelin have you taken the time to read through my seemingly endless post? I found what I believe to be a pattern. I'll be the first one to say it's an unlikely one, but still it does seem to be a consistent trend. You three have been accusing, forgiving, defending and distancing from each other. Maybe you are not all wolves, but I'm fairly sure one of you at the very least is. Possibly even two.

[Boromir88]

I don't know if Valier's reasoning is all that illogical. I think it's possible the wolves believed Rune was actually the cobbler, they saw his duty done so they killed him. Now why would wolves want to kill their ally?

Well as we all know the Cobbler doesn't know who the wolves are, and the wolves don't know who the Cobbler is. However, the Cobbler's duty is to stir as much confusion as possible. As Rune I think has certainly done this, because of the wolves choice.

I have memoirs from ancestors who were cursed, and they talk about actually killing a person they suspected to be the Cobbler. Since the Cobbler is trying to sew as much disorder and confusion as possible, and killing the Cobbler would do just that. As we don't know what we can take from the Cobbler's death. The wolves can effectively use a Cobbler by not only keeping him alive but actually killing him.

I don't know if lynching Naria or CoD would be the best thing either. As I have yet to see why either of them our wolves. Grant it, I think it would clear away this Rune thing, if neither of them are wolves what good does that do? We can't fiddle around much longer and keep on making these mistakes just so we can put to rest this 'Rune conversation.' If I can see a reasoning (which I will be looking at both of them) that one (or even both) are wolves, than let's do it. But, I'm not too fond of this idea...'let's just lynch one of them so we can figure out what the wolves were planning when they killed Rune.' We don't got a lot of room for error left.

I may just go back to my first night vote for Farael...he seems a bit hasty here. Perhaps for real life reasons he wasn't active for the first couple days. Then yesterday he comes in too late to vote. He's sure making his presence known today.

What I mean by he seems hasty, is first off I don't understand this:

More often than not, wolves will not kill someone who has just accused them if they think that person is the Seer. If Rune had turned out to be the seer, I would think that the wolves would have avoided killing him right there and then, because it would have meant the death of a wolvish Naria

I forget who pointed it out, but wolves would gladly make a sacrifice to nab the Seer....especially when the Seer is the only gifted in the village and the wolves have the amount of success they have had so far.

Also, I don't like this Durelin, CoD, and myself trio you've concocted up. How about we focus on just getting one wolf before we start thinking of who his/her partners are? While it's good to look for connections and possible 'partnerships' it's virtually useless until we actually get a wolf to go off of. When we get these groups of 'trios' before even finding one wolf it creates confusion and a mass of possibilities that may not even be true (especially if a wolf is the one making the 'trio'). To me it looks like you're attempting to group people together, attach 'wolf trio' to them, and trying to fool everyone into follow along with you.

[Farael]

Originally Posted by Boromir88

I may just go back to my first night vote for Farael...he seems a bit hasty here. Perhaps for real life reasons he wasn't active for the first couple days. Then yesterday he comes in too late to vote. He's sure making his presence known today.

What I mean by he seems hasty, is first off I don't understand this:

I forget who pointed it out, but wolves would gladly make a sacrifice to nab the Seer....especially when the Seer is the only gifted in the village and the wolves have the amount of success they have had so far.

Also, I don't like this Durelin, CoD, and myself trio you've concocted up. How about we focus on just getting one wolf before we start thinking of who his/her partners are? While it's good to look for connections and possible 'partnerships' it's virtually useless until we actually get a wolf to go off of. When we get these groups of 'trios' before even finding one wolf it creates confusion and a mass of possibilities that may not even be true (especially if a wolf is the one making the 'trio'). To me it looks like you're attempting to group people together, attach 'wolf trio' to them, and trying to fool everyone into follow along with you.

My friend, you are free to make your own choices, that's why I took the time to go through, post by post, CoD's comments. I tried to show my reasoning. Flawed? only the wolves, and perhaps the Seer, know it. Does that mean I want people to follow me? well, I think I'm right, thus I do want people to follow me... so I lay out the facts, and I say the way I see them so that perhaps others will see things the same way I do.

Is that a wolfish tactic? I don't think so, after all, you are doing the same. Are you a wolf, Mr. Boromir?

And this "trio" of mine surged from my analysis of CoD it is just a consequence of what I saw happening, and something I thought I'd bring up. After all, none of us ordos knows when he'll be killed, either by lynching or by murdering. I think we are best off speakin as much as we can, when RL does not get in the way. Besides, that way we are much more likely to step on some furry toes. Eventually things will become clear, and I hope that three (game) days from now, someone will look back and say "hey, maybe Farael wasn't that far off... if we add these new facts to what he said on day 3, maybe he was on to something".

Or maybe someone will say "look... Farael said this, the wolves did this and this, which means that it is likely that such and such is a wolf!"

Who knows what may happen? I say we do our best to explain ourselves to the fullest and let others make their own choices. That does not mean toss accusations randomly, but if there is something you think you should bring up, why not? Afraid of getting killed? only the furry ones should be.

[Farael]

Originally Posted by CaptainofDespair

*sighs*

Farael, I'm not going to answer your ridiculous post point by point, as there is no...well...point. I will say one thing, however. You, and quite a few others, have taken my first posts way out of context. And, those posts are the basis for nearly every accusation against me. I was simply playing around in character, as I was quite amused by being a Pompous Nobleman. .

Alright, don't answer the questions raised by your roleplaying... that wasn't the point of my post.

Care to answer about the questions raised by your consistently suspecting those that suspect you, solely on the basis of their suspicions? The way I see it, that has nothing to do with roleplaying and yet it is my biggest problem with your playing so far.

[CaptainofDespair]

Originally Posted by Farael

Alright, don't answer the questions raised by your roleplaying... that wasn't the point of my post.

Care to answer about the questions raised by your consistently suspecting those that suspect you, solely on the basis of their suspicions? The way I see it, that has nothing to do with roleplaying and yet it is my biggest problem with your playing so far.

You really want to know why? Here's why: Because I feel like it.

You really must come to understand that. I am not going to look for 'evidence'. There is none. Everything that you or anyone else comes up with is based on how you feel about certain things (for example, your own feeling, Farael, that there is a connection between Durelin, Boromir, and myself). You have no actual evidence. And you know what, I'm going on feeling as well.

So unless you come up with actual proof I'm a wolf, it's all just about how you feel that's at the core of the matter. And that is how my voting goes. I don't like being suspected, and I don't enjoy having to waste my time defending myself again and again, day after day. So I will vote for those that attack me and hope I can get rid of them. If they back off, so will I.

Either accept it, or don't. I no longer care whether you, or anyone else, does or not.

[Diamond18]

Boro, I'm a little confused about two things in your post.

I don't know if lynching Naria or CoD would be the best thing either. As I have yet to see why either of them our wolves. Grant it, I think it would clear away this Rune thing, if neither of them are wolves what good does that do?

Right now, the best clue about anything that I can see is the connection between Rune's death and Rune's posting, and that points to Naria as a wolf and CoD as an innocent, or vice versa, depending on how you interpret the wolves' kill psychology.

I forget who pointed it out, but wolves would gladly make a sacrifice to nab the Seer....especially when the Seer is the only gifted in the village and the wolves have the amount of success they have had so far.

'Twould be me who made that point. Does this mean you're in agreement that the wolves thought Rune a likely seer? Or wanted us to think they thought Rune a seer? If so, why do you not see why Naria (or CoD) could be a wolf?

At any rate, I'm going to stick with my plan from earlier and go ahead with my vote:

++Naria