LotR3-RotK-Seq15

[alatar]

Originally Posted by Essex

This is the one and only time I'm ever going to use a quote (ish) from Star Trek, but as Spock points out to Kirk as they are being hunted by Khan 'He thinks in only 2 dimensions'. i.e. Some arrogant, over confident generals can sometimes be very blinkered!

Interesting that you cite that scene (think that I may have watched once or twice ). Anyway, from memory, doesn't the Enterprise still enter the same 'plane' before attacking Khan's ship (meaning that Kirk doesn't bring the Enterprise down on top of the Reliant, perpendicular to the plane in which the Reliant sits.)?

Something else that I've noted: what is the use of Screechers in the air if they cannot see the approach of the Rohirrim?

[Elladan and Elrohir]

Originally Posted by alatar

Elladan and Elrohir, to me there's no way to 'pretty up' the fact that Gandalf sought to kill the Steward. Contrast the Gandalf here with the one in Moria who counseled against slaying Gollum.

Well, okay, but you'd have to agree it's a slightly different situation. Here, Denethor has grabbed Pippin, and as I rewatch the scene, I think he's got more than his own death in his eyes, due to his madness. I don't know if 'pretty up' is the right term, but I still think you can justify this.

Originally Posted by alatar

Something else that I've noted: what is the use of Screechers in the air if they cannot see the approach of the Rohirrim?

They apparently didn't spot the Rohirrim in the book, either.

[alatar]

Originally Posted by Elladan and Elrohir

They apparently didn't spot the Rohirrim in the book, either.

In the books, to me, they are there to spread fear and remain pretty much out of bow shot (not that any remained on the walls to take a shot). Their Chief is riding through the Gate when the Rohirrim appear, and so hasn't the best vantage point to see the Riders. Plus, he'd left a trap on the road, with pits and orcs, and so thought it "inconceivable" that the Rohirrim would even show. And the orcs and other eyed creatures were baffled a bit by the Darkness.

In the movie it seems that there is more light, and the Winged One is flying around the battlefield more. He and his eight aces strafe the city, and to me that means that they have some kind of sight, and so would see the other army appear. Plus Gothmog wasn't blind, and unless we assume that Theoden et al were assisted off-screen by the Woses, there was a road by which help could come.

I quibble. Thanks for posting.

[FeRaL sHaDoW]

Originally Posted by alatar

they are there to spread fear and remain pretty much out of bow shot (not that any remained on the walls to take a shot)

i dont get this what is the point of having fell beasts if they are not going to use them as major items of war??? they are always out of bow range and every one is too scared to try and shoot them. why hide away if no ones gona try shooting you??? i still wanna see a nazgul fall 15 hundred feet. :

[alatar]

Originally Posted by FeRaL sHaDoW

i dont get this what is the point of having fell beasts if they are not going to use them as major items of war???

In the books, the Nazgul are like the opposites of Gandalf - they discourage. Their weapon is fear; others wield the swords, hammers, axes and bows. But these material things are not enough. Only by overcoming the will of the defenders can Minas Tirith be taken. However, the Black Riders' steads are mortal and can be slain, as when Legolas plunks one from the air on the way to the Emyn Muil. And so, by remaining above the battle (okay, so they throw some darts, I think), they spread fear over a greater area than if they were Arda-bound. Plus it allows them to get wherever they're going a bit faster.

they are always out of bow range and every one is too scared to try and shoot them. why hide away if no ones gona try shooting you???

Prince Imrahil, like Legolas, may have been able to bring one down. And walking all the way back to Barad-dur and explaining why you lost yet another mount is never fun.

i still wanna see a nazgul fall 15 hundred feet. :

In flames, of course...

[FeRaL sHaDoW]

i see your points. but i still wanna see a nazgul fall 15 hundred feet "in flames of course"

[Essex]

Noise of can of worms reopening......

Looking back at it now, I don't think Gandalf looks THAT scared. I can just imagine him thinking 'oh s*d this, sorry Valar, but I'm not going to die twice' and showing us his Power in Full if the WK did land a strike..... He doesn't need his staff anyway as we can see by his destroying of Saruman's staff (both book and movie wise).

Yes this scene (to us Tolkien devotees) could have been better if closer to the book, but PJ obviously wanted to install some more drama out of the scene, and showing us the Rohirrim really did arrive in the nick of time. And if Theoden hadn't prattled on for half an hour to his troups (he must have seen a Middle-earth version of Henry 5th before he set out) then Gandalf might still have a staff to his name!

But the Ride of the Rohirrim. Oh how good was that! (Except for the PJ look alike who just rides through the orcs without swinging a sword or spear and looking like he's in an equastiran 3 day event!!!) It really brought the book to life.

This scene, just before Thedoen attacks, is one of my favourite parts of the book. Every time I read it it sends a shiver up my spine. I think it's the way we can see some of the strands of the story join together. We can see Grond in the distance marshalled by the Witch King. We hear Theoden marshall his troops, putting together his battle plan. In my head I can hear and see the forces of War fighting. It's a truly marvellous set up -

The film can't come close to conveying the above for me, but then I knew it wouldn't. I'm just pleased it was a good as it was. Very stirring!

WOW!

Just come back to the PC from watching the Mumakil fight. I'd forgotten how good the EE version of this is. I even gave an uncontrolable 'Go on Merry!!' as he started fighting the baddies. Good knife work!

What about the look of despair followed by resolution on Theoden's face as he spots the mumakil, seconds after thinking his job was almost finished. You acted them off the stage Bernard!