oldest person in middle earth

[Boromir88]

Amras to put it in the words of Goldberry...'He is.' Which means he simply just is. As Tolkien wrote in an unpublished Letter in 1968 (and appears in Hammond and Skulls Lord of the Ring's Companion:

'I do not know his origin though I might make guesses. He is best left as he is, a mystery. There are many mysteries in any closed/organized system of history/mythology.'

Ok, so Tolkien leaves Tom B. as an enigma to us all (as I doubt he really knew 'who Tom B. was', but I highly doubt that Tom Bombadil is any character/creature/person that comes from Tolkien's Middle-earth. Because:

Tolkien creates Tom completely from a whole different story seperated from Middle-earth...not the stories he created about the History of Middle-earth. Tom B was conceived long before Tolkien got to work on LOTR or The Silmarillion. He first appears in a story about King Bonhedig, and then later on in the 1930's, Tom Bombadil is in a poem Tolkien wrote where he's traveling down a river in England.

In a Letter to Christopher Fettes in 1961:

"So Bombadil is 'fatherless' , he has no historical origin in the world desribed in The Lord of the Rings."

So even though Tom B. is in a story about Middle-earth, he is not of Middle-earth. His origin, he who is does not come from the world Tolkien created in the Lord of the Ring's. Therefor, I doubt he is a Maiar. He is a character that Tolkien wrote small pieces about in stories 'outside' the history of Middle-earth and Tolkien decided to put him into a small part in Lord of the Rings. That doesn't mean Tom B. is of Middle-earth however, that just means he was put into Middle-earth.

Again, Goldberry says it best about Tom...'He is.'

[Amras Oronar]

aye, if I knew that I wouldn't have thought of calling him as Maiar Well thanks a lot for explaining he origen from Tom Bombadil for ever since I red lotr for the first time I have been wondering what he is and where he came from, thanks a lot for an awnser

[Bêthberry]

Mention of Goldberry once again brings up the question of her mother, although as Boro88 points out, the orginal sequence of Bombadil verse was not part of LotR. Still, we have no birth date for either Tom or Goldberry. Usually one assumes the woman is younger than the man, but this is not always the case. Yet the River Woman must be older than her daughter.

Speaking of spiders, Ungoliant clearly is ancient, older even than the maiar, it might appear, from her early descriptions in The Silm, yet she is outside Eru's creation, from the Void, and so I suppose does not qualify for this thread. Still, it is interesting to speculate what else might be out there in the Void or what the relationship is between The Void and Eä.

[The Might]

still, the fact that Tom simply found her one day near the river seems to suggest that she was younger...
he was Master of his domain, and would have probably her presence if she had been there before

also, the point made by Boromir88 is very good, another fact that shows the same thing is that Bombadil is unaffected by the Ring, and so many of the laws of Middle-earth are not valid in his case

[Boromir88]

I'll leave the two 'Berries' to themselves . I'm afraid whatever I say about her would probably simply be made up.

TM, ahh an excellent point about the Ring. I was going to bring that up as I forgot in the last post...alas you got to it before I did. Anywho, nice find. Gandalf and Saruman are Maiar, yet they still show the effects of the Ring. Gandalf may have been able to resist it, but he definitely feared possessing the Ring know what effect it would have on him. Where Tom B, simply just doesn't fit in with the rest of the 'Middle-earthians' when it comes to the Ring...as he shows no effect to it at all! Therefor I think are Bombadil isn't from Middle-earth he just happens to be residing there at the time being. Again, nice find.

[The Might]

Tom himself said:

"Don't you know my name yet? That's the only answer. Tell me, who are you, alone, yourself and nameless?"

"Eldest, that's what I am... Tom was here before the river and the trees; Tom remembers the first raindrop and the first acorn. He made paths before the Big People, and saw the little People arriving. He was here before the Kings and the graves and the Barrow-wights. When the Elves passed westward, Tom was here already, before the seas were bent. He knew the dark under the stars when it was fearless - before the Dark Lord came from Outside."

If he said himself that his name is the only answer it clearly means that the passing of time, or of events in the outside world clearly don't affect him in his own little domain. However, he clearly is not immune to all that is of Middle-earth, as he clearly has feelings and needs.

I always thought...why does Tom Bombadil need to eat ?

But please, don't answer that, I don't want to completely turn this thread into another TB discussion.

[Amras Oronar]

Well there's not much of a discussion left here anyway eh? I mean "Tom remembers the first raindrops" that means he was there when middle earth was creatted, and that means before the elves....

[ArathorofBarahir]

Wasn't Tom Bombadil the oldest person? He said that he was there before everything. However, since Treebeard is an ent, doesn't that make him pretty frickin' old since he's been in Middle-Earth since it's creation.

[Amras Oronar]

If you would have taken the effort of reading the posts in front of you, you would have red it is lituarily said that Tom is the oldest