Matriarchal or Patriarchal societies in ME ???

[Formendacil]

Originally Posted by littlemanpoet

Their spheres of influence and power are different. Celeborn is ruler of Lorien, and Galadriel is his Lady and advisor. By virtue of her Elven Ring, history, and lineage, she is a member of the White Council, which apparently Celeborn is not. So she may only be second in command in Lorien, but she is politically more powerful than Celeborn in an "international" sense .... as well as in fact of personal power as a High Elf who has seen the face of the gods.

I'm not so sure that Celeborn is ruler of Lórien, and Galadriel is not, as you suggest. The case has been made in this thread (Legate's post) that they were equal in their power in Lórien.

That does not mean that there were not two spheres of influence. That Celeborn is the military leader of the two would seem to be undisputed. Celeborn directs the military campaigns against Dol Guldur, and makes the military pact with Thranduil divided the Greenwood after the war. And while I would agree that Galadriel's chief and preferred sphere of influence is on the international scene, I do not think that she is merely Celeborn's advisor and wife. The way they are referred to by the Galadhrim strongly suggests to me that they were a ruling partnership.

Going back to Thingol and Melian, it was another matter in Doriath. To the Sindar, Thingol alone was lord. He was lord of the Teleri before he was lost in Nan Elmoth, and he remains as the only mentioned overlord of Círdan and the Sindar (if memory serves) after the foundation of the realms. Furthermore, the claims of Dior and his sons are always as "Heirs of Elu", never as "Heirs of Thingol and Melian".

Melian, therefore, better fits LMP's description of Galadriel: Lady and Advisor (not always heeded, I might add), and more powerful on the "international" scene. The Kings of the Noldor all defer to Thingol as the sole and chief lord of the Sindar, but notice who actually has the power on the international scene. Melian. Her girdle is what the Noldor and Morgoth are really concerned about. But there is no reason, as I see it, to think that Melian was a fully and complete sovereign of Doriath, as Thingol was.