The Fellowship of the Fourth Age (Part 1): A New Beginning Discussion Thread

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Yes I did.

I went back to check it and and must say I'm not wholly certain any more of the post you refer to as I couldn't find anything written by you in a long time but only a post in this discussion thread (your post in the discussion thread felt familiar and I thought I had been brave enough to actually read everything that had happed so far again today...) ... Puzzles me indeed... even though I will hold my basic point still: we (the ex-slaves) are too good in fighting.

[Durelin]

Originally Posted by Pio

I'm in the midst of writing Rôg's post -- there are 2 slavers on horseback that he'll deal with; that is, he'll take down the horses. The slavers will tumble off. One will break his sword/weapons arm; the other will be somewhat dazed.

Can your character and Shae take care of the 2 men?

I believe so...though Gamal and Nasim, and even Beloan, too, could come help if need be...

Nogrod - Just remember that these ex-slaves (the original fifteen) are warriors, too, even if they don't have armour. I'd say all of them have had their fair share of battling, if on smaller scales, doing various raids against the plantations. And armour has its own drawbacks, such as slowing people down. So really outnumbering the slavers is key...and simply be prepared. If you've got two quick ex-slaves against even a well-armoured and well-armed Easterling, the ex-slaves have pretty good chances.

But you definitely have very good points, and that's just my view...I'm by no means an expert on anything battle related, hehe...

[piosenniel]

Nogrod

I'm referring to this post on the discussion thread - #835.

Let's just forget that scenario set up for Shae and Khamir - I will take care of the matter in another way.

~*~ Pio

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by piosenniel

I'm referring to this post on the discussion thread - #835.

Let's just forget that scenario set up for Shae and Khamir - I will take care of the matter in another way.

Yeah. That was what I was referring to in the first place too... And indeed I don't think that it is reasonable to talk over that one as I think there are questions pertaining to the larger picture of affairs we should discuss now. Sorry if I used you as an example of a larger point unfairly. Sorry indeed.

F.ex. if the slavers making a breach would actually be able to create a real havoc - catching or killing something like 4-8 people (if there are 4 possibly free slavers left), it would look a bit more realistic. I think both Khala and Cuáran (as characters I have brought into this game) could be sacrificed - or those yet nameless ones.

But somehow I just think the real soldiers (the slavers) should not lose all the time...

[Firefoot]

I think that part of the problem is that each of us is writing for our own character - and most of us certainly aren't ready for our characters to bite the dust yet! We don't have many people writing characters whom they want killed, so that basically means that the characters we are specifically writing about wind up coming out on top in their fights. That's my simple answer.

As long as the numbers work out in the end, it should be fine. Just because it's working out well for the primary characters doesn't mean it necessarily is for everyone.

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Firefoot

As long as the numbers work out in the end, it should be fine. Just because it's working out well for the primary characters doesn't mean it necessarily is for everyone.

Your first point (we have our own characters we don't wish to kill) was good, but on this second one I would like to comment. Yes. We should be more ready to
a) kill our "secondary characters"
b) those we have named in passing
c) those we have not named in the first place

Would that sound unfair or bad to you?

For example: I kind of have learned to like Beloan and could see him making a difference in the game after the fight with the slavers ends but we should be ready to kill him off too. Or anyone named... not to talk of writing posts where before unnamed people get killed...

We should also see that it seems that most of the people this far taking part in the fight have been men, so there should be a lots of women (and some children & the elderly) who are not yet accounted for - so a good part of those not named yet are women - hopefully all of them will not die, but a few should...

[Brinniel]

I've updated the death count list I made earlier in case anyone cared. I know it at least helps me figure things out...

Originally Posted by Durelin

Personally, I'd love to have Shae and Khamir kick some more butt.

Well, I like that idea

Shae may be exhausted and injured, but she's certainly determined. I'm sure she'll find another adreneline rush as she attacks her next opponent, and you know how powerful that stuff is.

Nogrod- I meant to write a post with Eirnar and Aedhild earlier and never got around to it. I could still write that post and include plenty of devastation from the ex-slave side in general. I promise the post won't be full of heroics...

[Durelin]

Originally Posted by Brinniel

I meant to write a post with Eirnar and Aedhild earlier and never got around to it. I could still write that post and include plenty of devastation from the ex-slave side in general. I promise the post won't be full of heroics...

If you don't have the time or would prefer it, I can include the deaths of Eirnar and Aedhild in my post.

Sorry; that will be up as soon as possible. I needed a day off from lots of thinking today, though, so I apologize for not working on it yet.

[Child of the 7th Age]

Nogrod,

Killing too many slavers? It's good to remember not to go crazy but my feeling is that things may not be as clear cut or one sided as you suggest. Some of our characters have had success, but others have encountered their share of problems and hardships. In fact at this point, I have grave doubts about killing too many more of the good guys. Let's consider the situation and the numbers. We started off with 77 good guys max (70 slaves, 7 fellowship) and about 24 to 26 slavers.

The initial strategy of the slaves was foiled because Imak split his troops....so right from the first, things were not a piece of cake. The storyline does include scenes where the good guys fought but were unable to bring down their prey. Lindir along with Gretl and Wulf, two members of the original band, tracked several slavers to the southern portions of the camp yet failed to harm the men. Moreover, Lindir and several other members of the fellowship are experienced fighters. Although the elf has been soldiering for several thousand years, stretching back to his days in Beleriand, he has made no kills in this battle. Aiwendil has chased one man out of camp but has also killed no one. And Tevildo's Dorran, an experienced Rider, brought down just one and still bears a head wound from the previous day's skirmish that prevents him from fighting further. (He has retired from the fighting to haul bodies in for treatment. ) We have one major character lying wounded, with no real idea how serious his condition may be. Finally, the charging boar witnessed the deaths of two women and has heard the shrieks of a number of others who are presently being attacked within the grove.

I pulled up the casualty list graciously supplied by Brinniel and updated it with some additional information on those injured, kidnapped, etc.

Slavers:

2- killed by Beloan
1- killed by Kwell
2- killed by Khamir
1- killed by Adnan
1- killed by Dorran
2- killed by Shae (unless you want to count the one from the other night?)
2- killed by Rog
1- killed by Joshwan
1- killed by Reagonn
1- killed by Aiwendil
1- killed by Johari
1- killed by Carl and Kwell
1- killed by Carl and Dirand
1- killed by Kwell and two men
2- killed by Nasim, Gamal, and Zaki
2- killed by Khamir, Nasim, and Gamal

Total: 22

Of course, I'm sure a few more will die as we conclude the battle...

*****I would add two names to this:

Run off/Unknown
Imak
Man chased by boar towards the Orc camp

That makes 24 slavers in trouble or dead.


The there are the dead Ex-Slaves:

1. Tareef
2. Joshwan
3. Erlech
4. Zaki
5. Ayce
6. Darren
7. Korden
8. Syth
9. Reagonn
10. Rowenna
11-12. pregnant woman


Again, you need to add these names among the injured, some more and some less seriously so :

Vror
Dorran
Hadith
Adnan
Rôg

Plus, there were those who had to be rescued:
Tom
Azhar [/i]

That means we've described serious problems for 14 members of our band. There is also the possibility that one or more of those wounded may die or suffer long term impairment. And it is likely that other fighters have fallen quietlly, a fact that is still unknown to us. Plus, when the dust from battle settles, many of those still on their feet will bear additional minor wounds. (Aiwendil certainly will.)


From Aiwendil's description of the activity in the grove and also from Undomie's save, I would estimate we're talking about another 5-6 folk killed or seriously injured among the women and children. That means out of 77 good guys, we've had casualties and mishaps for 24 members of our band. That is about one-third of our total! The temporary loss of one-third of any community is a huge loss, especially when 18 of those have perished (about one-fourth of our total ranks). I honestly don't think we want to hack down too many others. We need enough people to start a community in the north. The heart of this RPG isn't the battle (as fun as that is) but the establishment of a new Mordor and the relations between humans and orcs. We can't have a new Mordor without people to start it.

My only concern here is the number of slavers that I postulated from the beginning. We probably should have gone with a figure around 30 rather than 24-26. But I refuse to be hog tied strictly by an artificial number, especially one that can be so easily changed. What I would like to do, if no one objects, is to go back through the entire thread and change the slavers estimate upward to 30. This could be done very easily with the search function. Would anyone have problems with that? If I adjust that number upward, it would also let those who want to get in their final hacks do so with ease..... (without going crazy, of course). And if another slaver or two takes to the hills or to the orc camp, that would be fine with me.

So we need more descriptions of those meetings where "our" people get crashed and lose as otherwise we will soon be needing to adjust the initial number of the slavers and raise their numbers to double our ex-slaves...

One final note regarding this.... One of the constant criticisms of Tolkien is that he lets his major characters off too easily....only one member of the fellowship is actually killed depite the enormous danger. We know there are deaths and injuries going on among the various "good" soldiers during the battles but these are generally not described and, with a few exceptions, happen to characters we don't know well. My gut feeling is that many RPG's done in the spirit of Tolkien tend towards this same model. For the most part I am comfortable with that. And, as I said before, I wouldn't have a problem nudging up the number of slavers by just a bit. Moreover, just as in Tolkien, there is more going on here than first meets the eye. We won't know our full damages until the battle ends and things settle down.

So please don't whack too many more of the good guys down.

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Durelin

I'm by no means an expert on anything battle related, hehe...

Happily, no one of us is in RL...

What i meant is that there is a X number of meetings between the slavers and the Ex-slaves / the FS - and if every one of them ends up with the Ex-slaves / FS winning - the all-out result looks astonishingly impossible... I have tried to be as balanced as possible in my posts and I think my results are about equal. I should possibly have made posts that get more of us killed and leaving more of the real slavers alive, I admit. But I think some of you others should think about this same thing too...

So we need more descriptions of those meetings where "our" people get crashed and lose as otherwise we will soon be needing to adjust the initial number of the slavers and raise their numbers to double our ex-slaves... I mean if every ex-slave manages to bring down two enemies, there needs to be a double numbers of the enemy to confront us. Although the preliminary idea was - if I remember it correctly - that there should be half the number of ex-slaves as the slavers attacking...

Soon we have killed as many slavers as there are ex-slaves around, even though there are women, children and the elderly composing a reasonable part of "us" while the slavers are all tough soldiers on horseback...

It just feels unbelievable, a bit too fantastic, sorry.

It's just my view of the things, though...

[Durelin]

Pio - If you're going to adjust those plans, it seems I should be editing my latest post pretty majorly...Shae and Khamir took down two unwounded slavers in that one, hehe...

Personally, I'd love to have Shae and Khamir kick some more butt.