The Fellowship of the Fourth Age (Part 1): A New Beginning Discussion Thread

[Child of the 7th Age]

Nogrod,

Killing too many slavers? It's good to remember not to go crazy but my feeling is that things may not be as clear cut or one sided as you suggest. Some of our characters have had success, but others have encountered their share of problems and hardships. In fact at this point, I have grave doubts about killing too many more of the good guys. Let's consider the situation and the numbers. We started off with 77 good guys max (70 slaves, 7 fellowship) and about 24 to 26 slavers.

The initial strategy of the slaves was foiled because Imak split his troops....so right from the first, things were not a piece of cake. The storyline does include scenes where the good guys fought but were unable to bring down their prey. Lindir along with Gretl and Wulf, two members of the original band, tracked several slavers to the southern portions of the camp yet failed to harm the men. Moreover, Lindir and several other members of the fellowship are experienced fighters. Although the elf has been soldiering for several thousand years, stretching back to his days in Beleriand, he has made no kills in this battle. Aiwendil has chased one man out of camp but has also killed no one. And Tevildo's Dorran, an experienced Rider, brought down just one and still bears a head wound from the previous day's skirmish that prevents him from fighting further. (He has retired from the fighting to haul bodies in for treatment. ) We have one major character lying wounded, with no real idea how serious his condition may be. Finally, the charging boar witnessed the deaths of two women and has heard the shrieks of a number of others who are presently being attacked within the grove.

I pulled up the casualty list graciously supplied by Brinniel and updated it with some additional information on those injured, kidnapped, etc.

Slavers:

2- killed by Beloan
1- killed by Kwell
2- killed by Khamir
1- killed by Adnan
1- killed by Dorran
2- killed by Shae (unless you want to count the one from the other night?)
2- killed by Rog
1- killed by Joshwan
1- killed by Reagonn
1- killed by Aiwendil
1- killed by Johari
1- killed by Carl and Kwell
1- killed by Carl and Dirand
1- killed by Kwell and two men
2- killed by Nasim, Gamal, and Zaki
2- killed by Khamir, Nasim, and Gamal

Total: 22

Of course, I'm sure a few more will die as we conclude the battle...

*****I would add two names to this:

Run off/Unknown
Imak
Man chased by boar towards the Orc camp

That makes 24 slavers in trouble or dead.


The there are the dead Ex-Slaves:

1. Tareef
2. Joshwan
3. Erlech
4. Zaki
5. Ayce
6. Darren
7. Korden
8. Syth
9. Reagonn
10. Rowenna
11-12. pregnant woman


Again, you need to add these names among the injured, some more and some less seriously so :

Vror
Dorran
Hadith
Adnan
Rôg

Plus, there were those who had to be rescued:
Tom
Azhar [/i]

That means we've described serious problems for 14 members of our band. There is also the possibility that one or more of those wounded may die or suffer long term impairment. And it is likely that other fighters have fallen quietlly, a fact that is still unknown to us. Plus, when the dust from battle settles, many of those still on their feet will bear additional minor wounds. (Aiwendil certainly will.)


From Aiwendil's description of the activity in the grove and also from Undomie's save, I would estimate we're talking about another 5-6 folk killed or seriously injured among the women and children. That means out of 77 good guys, we've had casualties and mishaps for 24 members of our band. That is about one-third of our total! The temporary loss of one-third of any community is a huge loss, especially when 18 of those have perished (about one-fourth of our total ranks). I honestly don't think we want to hack down too many others. We need enough people to start a community in the north. The heart of this RPG isn't the battle (as fun as that is) but the establishment of a new Mordor and the relations between humans and orcs. We can't have a new Mordor without people to start it.

My only concern here is the number of slavers that I postulated from the beginning. We probably should have gone with a figure around 30 rather than 24-26. But I refuse to be hog tied strictly by an artificial number, especially one that can be so easily changed. What I would like to do, if no one objects, is to go back through the entire thread and change the slavers estimate upward to 30. This could be done very easily with the search function. Would anyone have problems with that? If I adjust that number upward, it would also let those who want to get in their final hacks do so with ease..... (without going crazy, of course). And if another slaver or two takes to the hills or to the orc camp, that would be fine with me.

So we need more descriptions of those meetings where "our" people get crashed and lose as otherwise we will soon be needing to adjust the initial number of the slavers and raise their numbers to double our ex-slaves...

One final note regarding this.... One of the constant criticisms of Tolkien is that he lets his major characters off too easily....only one member of the fellowship is actually killed depite the enormous danger. We know there are deaths and injuries going on among the various "good" soldiers during the battles but these are generally not described and, with a few exceptions, happen to characters we don't know well. My gut feeling is that many RPG's done in the spirit of Tolkien tend towards this same model. For the most part I am comfortable with that. And, as I said before, I wouldn't have a problem nudging up the number of slavers by just a bit. Moreover, just as in Tolkien, there is more going on here than first meets the eye. We won't know our full damages until the battle ends and things settle down.

So please don't whack too many more of the good guys down.

[Regin Hardhammer]

I filled in my save with a short post. Firefoot - let me know if my use of Grask is alright. Otherwise, I'll edit it.

- Regin

[Undómë]

There are 6 women dead, 2 girls, and possibly 3 or 4 small children.

EDIT: WELL, THAT'S WHAT I HAD AT FIRST - BUT NOW THESE NUMBERS ARE NO LONGER TRUE. ONLY 3 WOMEN (MY CHARACTERS) ARE DEAD.

The women are in disarray, running helter-skelter from the grove in different directions.

There are 3 slavers after them (the two original ones Child of the 7th Age mentioned in her post for Aiwendil + another who joined them).

The slavers are each now riding separately from each other after groups of women and children, intending on rounding them up like so much cattle.

The thoroughly clubbed Rôg has been dragged by the women to some shrubs along the edge of the grove's clearing and stuffed out of the way beneath some low-growing bushes.

[Brinniel]

Aiwendil has chased one man out of camp but has also killed no one.

Whoops...I wasn't sure about that but I guess I assumed that the slaver did die. I need to start reading more carefully. You can fix that if you like, Child.

Question: Wasn't Rowenna the midwife? I thought so, but now I'm not sure...

Also, you can add Shae to the list of injured. While it's nothing terribly serious, she'll definitely need some attention from Athwen once the battle is over.

What I would like to do, if no one objects, is to go back through the entire thread and change the slavers estimate upward to 30.

I like that idea. I think a larger amount of slavers would be better. Besides, I originally thought the number was at 27 or 28.

I'm going to put up a save for Aedhild and Eirnar. Right now, I'm planning to kill off Aedhild for sure....I'll leave the fate of Eirnar up to someone else. I'm not sure when I'll fill in this save, but I'll try to as soon as possible.

[Child of the 7th Age]

Brinniel,

No, Aiwendil did not kill his slaver. The last time I saw him, he was chasing him eastward across the plain.......

But yes, Rowenna was the midwife, so I've revised that initial figure down by one.
___________________

Original figures....

70 slavers
7 fellowship members

Current figures.....

Fellowship....Three wounded of which two are unconscious.

Ex-slaves: 22-23 dead; 2 injured plus 2 earlier kidnap victims (26-27 in all)

Altogether, that gives us roughly 40% of the fellowship wounded and one-third of the ex-slaves dead; plus another 6% wounded and/or traumatized by kidnapping.

[Nogrod]

... That makes 24 slavers in trouble or dead.......

vs. 12 goodies. So for every ex-slave killed two deaths of slavers...

We need enough people to start a community in the north. The heart of this RPG isn't the battle (as fun as that is) but the establishment of a new Mordor and the relations between humans and orcs. We can't have a new Mordor without people to start it.

Sure. As I said, if the storyline requires, we'll do anything.

What I would like to do, if no one objects, is to go back through the entire thread and change the slavers estimate upward to 30.

A good idea. Otherwise we would have already run out of the slavers...

And just not to leave any room for misunderstandings: I'm quite happy with this game and enjoy writing it as it is. It was just that I started to feel a bit uncomfortable with the success of our good guys. But that's no major problem anyhow.

[Tevildo]

There is no way Dorran could witness that carnage of women and children in the grove and not try to do something depite the likely results, since he already has a head injury......months ago in real time, but just a day ago in game time.

Please reserve one of those three baddies for me. I will fill the post tomorrow.

[Undómë]

EDIT:

Nothing to see here really . . . pass on by.

I had originally had counted up 32 slaves as the total being dead or injured.

But that is now revised downward to my own 3 characters being dead in addition to those ex-slaves others killed off in their posts.

[Child of the 7th Age]

Undómë,

That's correct. Only the 32 in trouble or dead should actually be 33, since Brinniel has said she will be killing off Aedhild.

[Brinniel]

Actually, if you edit from my error, there should only be 21 slavers killed...

Reading your save, I hope you do not plan to kill off Dorran, Tevildo. I would be very saddened if such an event were to occur.

Durelin- I don't know how far you've gotten on writing your save, but I was think maybe it'd be better if Shae and Khamir only take down one slaver. After all, Shae is still injured and though she can fight, in all likelihood she probably would no longer be able to kill a slaver without a lot of help from Khamir (or someone else). As much as you'd all like her to be, Shae is not a warrior princess.

[Folwren]

Question! Question!

The women and children have been slaughtered and scattered (see Undome's latest post). They're running for their lives.

Athwen was behind them, farther back in the grove. She has wounded people with her and besides that, she's probably not inclined to run away anyway. But what of her? Will the three slavers leave her be while they run up the others? (There are only three left, right?)

Just wondering... I'm not going to put up a save or write a post until Tevildo has filled his.

-- Folwren

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Undómë

Actually, it's not 12 "goodies" dead to 24 slavers in trouble or dead. Since my last post, the tab looks like this:
.........................
13. Brenna (in the grove)
14. ex-slave female (in the grove)
15. ex-slave female (in the grove)
16. ex-slave female (in the grove)
17. ex-slave female (in the grove)
18. ex-slave female (in the grove)
19. Nia (16y/o) (in the grove)
20. Gwenith (11y/o) (in the grove)
21. young child (in the grove)
22. young child (in the grove)
23. young child (in the grove)
24. young child (in the grove)
25. young child (in the grove)

How brutal of you Undómë!

But even as we're talking about innocents taking it rough, I must confess the numbers start to look more believable... although they are just numbers that look better now...

Just forget my whining and get on with it everyone. I'm feeling a bit embarrassed because of all the hassle I have seemed to arouse here...

I'll try to wake Hadith up to fumble again if I have time to do it before everything's over...

[Tevildo]

I am talking with Folwren about what to do. This isn't a case of me deciding to kill my characters. The way this story has gone in the last day in trems of "realistic" situations and body count, I really have little choice.

Azhar is trapped at the entrance to the grove with the rest of the women. She was thrown to the side and wounded. Her chances of getting out alive are very slim. Even if she does get out, she is going to have seen all that death and dying and she'd have to deal with that. She'll know she could have done something if she had only been able to put on the bear form. Seeing Rôg clubbed will also be a shock, since she's one of the few who knows that he could have saved himself by shifting forms.

I think I have even less choice with Dorran. He would not stand by and let this happen. He will try to fight and die because he was wounded and unconscious the day before. To do anything else would be totally "unrealistic".

I am going to use my save to do a set up post for Azhar and wait till after I talk with Folwren to finish everything up.

Oh, yeah....by the way, the figures everyone is using are wrong. It was a long time ago --four months--but there was a whole lot of discussion about numbers and how important it was that there be a balance between orcs and slaves. Child and Durelin said that there could be a certain number of slaves killed, but that the orcs (who are physically larger and much more experienced) had to be a much smaller group or there would not be a realistic chance of cooperation between the two bands. They both had to feel threatened with no one having the upper hand. The founders were very specific about the numbers: 65 ex-slaves, 25 slavers (now revised up to 30), and 15 orcs plus the 7 fellowship members. If anyone wants, I can give you the links.

Including Aedhild and Azhar who will likely die, we have 27 dead ex-slaves. That's a 42% mortailty rate -- I feel like I've slipped back to the slaughters of Beleriand. That leaves 38 alive, but two are badly wounded and a bunch presumably have minor wounds. It's possible those numbers about who is alive will drop because realistically you can't know your exact body count in the middle of a battle. There will be just three members of the fellowship who can fight. Everyone else is injured, dead or a woman.

At this point, I would bet on the orcs......

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Tevildo

There will be just three members of the fellowship who can fight. Everyone else is injured, dead or a woman.

Teehee!

At this point, I would bet on the orcs......

...who are totally drunk by now. I think it will be more than even from the point of view of the ex-slaves & the Fellowship.

But otherwise you speak well Tevildo. The headcounts from the beginning do not seem to hold anymore. So we will just have to accustom ourselves to the new situation and try to bear with it. I believe we can do it.

PS. I t would be too sad to see Dorran go at this point, so please save him in a way or another...