The Fellowship of the Fourth Age (Part 1): A New Beginning Discussion Thread

[Nogrod]

I'd like to ask everyone to remove themselves from all the numbers, and rethink this story, this game in the big picture.

I do agree, indeed, even if I was the one laying this molehill that turned out to be a mountain. That was not my intention anyway.

We're on to the ninth page and we still haven't united the Orcs with the slaves and Fellowship - when this occurs was when the game was really supposed to start.
...........
We just have to remember we're roleplaying. Playing a role. Playing, having fun, as a part of a game.

Isn't the fact that we're on the page 9 just a confirmation of the latter, that we all have been enjoying this game and playing it to the fullest?

On the "realism-issue" I would think that Durelin is right about the slavers and by that I mean that they would not try to hunt down everyone to kill them but to capture as many they can and then retreat if they saw the situation too hard on them. Now most of them are dead anyhow and that can't (shouldn't) be changed... So as I said, let's just continue.

And for my part I will end this discussion about any numbers or distances or whatever here as I see it's growing too big in relation to its worth. I'll be happy with everything suggested.

As Durelin said: let's just have fun and write for our characters. And sorry about all this trouble.

[Child of the 7th Age]

Great post Durelin. I agree with much of what you've said. Now that we've had a chance to echange thoughts by pm, I'm going to put forward some of the ways we thought of that might be helpful to resolve this.

First, a personal note....and bear with me on the length of this post. As Durelin hints, this plot idea was "my baby"--a long held dream I've wanted to see spun out in an RPG or a fanfiction. The whole reason I was so careful about the numbers in the groups is that I wanted to make the plot believable. (I guess believable is the word I prefer rather than "realistic", since the latter is so often used to criticise Tolkien and negate the meaning of fantasy.) Both the Orcs and the ex-slaves have to feel that they can not make it to the north unless they rely on help from each other. Moreover, the two groups must be convinced that the physical power of each is roughly equivalent to the other, so that one band can not destroy the other. Since Orcs are better fighters both by nature and experience (though less capable of original thought), the band of ex-slaves must be considerably larger than that of the orcs.

Nogrod is certainly right to remind us that the victory of the slaves must come at a price. It can't be easy. There must be deaths. The problem comes with the specific numbers involved. I had never envisioned a death toll of 42% among the slaves (or the death of a member of the fellowship) as this would do serious damage to the careful equation we'd concocted at the beginning of the game. Regin, Tevildo, and Umdomie are also correct that such a drastic shift in numbers would necessitate a different plot than the one originally envisioned. In relation to this, here is the original agreement on the distances between the camps.

If we assume the slavers took one hour to return to camp and galloping horses go 6.7 mph (Fonstad's figure), the distance between the two camps is 6-7 miles.

Given the figure of seven miles, it is quite conceivable that the injured slaver could reach the orc camp on horseback in about an hour and spill the beans to Ishkur as to what has happened. Of course, the slaver could also go wandering off in the desert and never be heard from again.

I think we can reach a middle ground here: realistic numbers of dead but enough alive to preserve the original storyline. But to do that, minor changes will have to be made. I am therefore making the following requests.....

1. First, Tevildo, you were right about the numbers. We started off with 65 slaves. More importantly, please don't kill your characters without trying to work this out. I understand why you felt you had to do that. If the situation was this dire in the grove, Azhar would have died and Dorran as well trying to help her. Let's assume for a moment that the number of deaths is a wee bit lower, the situation grave but not to the point of breaking. I see no problem with you continuing with your two posts for Azhar and Dorran, perhaps softening the first one just a tad with a word here and there (nothing drastic).

Would you consider having Lindir come in to help pull the chestnuts out of the fire? He is the actually the character with the most experience in war and would likely keep a cool ahead and come up with a trick or two to get you two free from that brute. He may pay a small price, but being an elf who heals quickly does have certain advantages. (He also has the advantage of height and several thousand years of battling against Morgoth and Sauron.) I am not the greatest writer of battle posts, but I'll do my best.

2. Undomie - Whoa! I wish I could write with your energy and decisiveness when it comes to action. Could you soften it ever so slightly? Have some of the deaths be injuries? This wouldn't take much revision, just indicating they are stunned or whatever rather than dead. I will let you be the judge of the correct number of deaths to injuries. Just remember we have to rise again to fight a much worse enemy, and I don't mean orcs!

3. Regin -- Could you just hold off filling that save? I know you and the other orcs have good reason to be restless but please wait till the rest of this falls more into place. I really would like to keep to the original plot we agreed on: some portion of the fellowship will travel to the slavers' old camp late tonight and catch the orcs there -- the men half drunk and the women playing the role suggested by Tolkien in pleading for mercy. (Pleading? Maybe that's the wrong word...I'm not sure how an orc would ask or demand a break. That could be interesting to see.) Then the good guys will face a gigantic moral dilemma.

The glue that will hold this all together is what Aiwendil is going to find when he's out there on the plain heading back to camp snorting and smelling the night air. The one thing that's guaranteed to bring two enemies together is when they discover they have an even larger headache to face in the near future, one tha could destroy them both.

Nogrod - I know this isn't 100% of what you wanted, but I think it does tread a middle line so we can all continue with our characters and storylines.

If you or anyone has more ideas on this, just share them on the discussion thread.

Oh, yes....the death of Aedhild. That's up to you, Brinniel, and what you need to do with the character.....although at this point I'd love to see a certain number of warm, living bodies.

[Tevildo]

Child -

I am more comfortable with this so let's go ahead. There's still going to be some sad deaths and injuries in that grove but hopefully not so many that we can't continue with the same story line.

Let's assume for a moment that the number of deaths is a wee bit lower, the situation grave but not to the point of breaking. I see no problem with you continuing with your two posts for Azhar and Dorran, perhaps softening the first one just a tad with a word here and there (nothing drastic).

Yes, I can do that. But probably not till tomorrow.

Would you consider having Lindir come in to help pull the chestnuts out of the fire?

That would be helpful. I will send you my ideas. To make this believable, one of my two characters should probably get hurt, but no one will die. My characters seem to have a knack for getting sick and injured since both of them have already been in the infirmary once. Athwen could make a fortune if she could just start charging for all these "housecalls".

[Brinniel]

I definitely agree on what's being said here. While at first we may have gone over a little much on the heroics, this devastation that has suddenly swept through the camp is just too overwhelming, and in my opinion, has gone overboard. Not only would we lose the large number we need, but emotionally, how would the remaining ex-slaves carry on? We lose that many ex-slaves, and we lose that sense of hope we need to start that new beginning.

Tevildo, as others mentioned before, please don't kill your characters. Azhar and Dorran are great characters and it'd be terrible to lose them. And while I knew characters would be killed off, I never imagined them to be the main characters. I've killed off my own character before in a different RPG when I saw it necessary, and honestly it just plain sucks because once your characters are all dead, you're done. And I don't know about everyone else, but I'd hate to lose you as a writer on this RPG. Dorran may be slightly injured, but I would think he could successfully rescue Azhar. After all, he is a Rider of Rohan (not to mention ex-slave), so he should be pretty tough, right?

And as for Aedhild... If no one minds, I would still like to kill her off. After all, with Nova gone, she is now an NPC, therefore not important to the story, plus I have this really great idea on her death that I'd like to use. Here's what I could do: I'll have Aedhild be one of the woman that were mentioned in Undome's post. At that point of time, she won't have died just yet, but will be seriously injured. Eirnar will find her, and that's basically where my post will pick up. Eirnar will definitely not die; instead I can use him as another reinforcement. Depending on what Durelin posts, perhaps I will have him aid Shae and Khamir.

EDIT: Seems I'm a little slow on my posting, as I have only just read your last post Tevildo, but I'm glad to see you're not killing them off.

[Folwren]

Thank you, thank you, thank you for not killing your characters, Tevildo!!! Thanks much, Durelin and Child, for your girls' posts. He wouldn't listen to me! This morning was tough. I didn't want to tell you then, because I didn't want to disuade you with my personal feelings, but I was down right depressed as we wrote those PMs, Tevildo, and you were so set and determined to kill poor Azhar and Dorran.

As to how to continue, Athwen can also run in and help. If she looks up and over to see the women and children attacked and then kind of runs forward in alarm, sees them all scattered, and then sees Azhar hurt, perhaps Dorran can jump in against the slaver, Athwen can run forward and get Azhar (move her, half carry, half drag, maybe) while Dorran distracts the slaver. And then Lindir can come and help Dorran.

How's that sound? Please can we do it? I've not been able to do anything with Athwen this whole battle, except run on the horse and then try to mend people.

I am so happy now, you can't guess.

Cheers!

-- Folwren

[Regin Hardhammer]

Ah, well! You win some and you lose some. Part of me was dreaming about leading a victorious army against the slaves and fellowship. I guess it's back to the horse farm.

But really, this is better.....the idea of the two groups having to cooperate. I've erased my save for now. I still may do a scene with that slaver who's escaped, but I'll do it later in the night. I think Nogrod is right that it would take him a little longer to find his way back to the camp.

[Child of the 7th Age]

As to how to continue, Athwen can also run in and help. If she looks up and over to see the women and children attacked and then kind of runs forward in alarm, sees them all scattered, and then sees Azhar
hurt, perhaps Dorran can jump in against the slaver

Folwren -

This sounds good to me from Lindir's perspective. We'll see what Tevildo says. I'm also relieved that Dorran and Azhar will continue to be part of the story.

And as for Aedhild... If no one minds, I would still like to kill her off. After all, with Nova gone, she is now an NPC, therefore not important to the story, plus I have this really great idea on her death that I'd like to use.

Brinniel -

If you've got a good story idea, definitely run with it.

Part of me was dreaming about leading a victorious army against the slaves and fellowship. I guess it's back to the horse farm.

Regin -

The trials and tribulations of being an orc! I sympathize. Actually, someday I'd like to do an RPG from a "Marxist" perspective that acted out the "Orc as worker" theories that abound about LotR! I think I may have to sneak a story like that in through the back door of the RPG forums!

[Nogrod]

Very well thought out posts Durelin & Child. You're quite wonderful mods!