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#1 | |||||
Shade of Carn Dûm
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 413
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While Mordor and Gondor were certainly no Levant, Ithilien could have been foraged in for some supplies, especially early in the campaign.And while Rhun and Mordor were desolate, Napoleon had managed to ship supplies (but his mistakes ruined any good that could have happened with the logistics) in both the cases of Egypt and Russia. The Witch-King had a smaller line of supply, then, and could thus do it as well (and I doubt he was as foolish as Napoleon in the case of logistics). Quote:
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Now, how is two years good enough for the Gondorians to get over the shock of a "siege" and the possibility of attack from elsewhere, and yet not enough for them to come to grips with something they had recently just seen in the Wights, which was a comparable situation? And add to that they know about the Nazgul, or at least the Witch-King, and the properties he brings to the table. Quote:
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#2 | |||||||
Regal Dwarven Shade
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: A Remote Dwarven Hold
Posts: 3,593
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The Witch-king had no such option. Try again. Quote:
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I certainly think that they would not have been clearly versed in what the Nazgul were capable of doing if they were unclad (which is what my theory rests upon). At some point the Gondorians may have had some inkling about the Nazgul, but what are you supposed to do against an enemy that you can’t see?
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#3 | |||||||
Shade of Carn Dûm
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 413
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#4 | ||||||
Regal Dwarven Shade
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: A Remote Dwarven Hold
Posts: 3,593
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Of course, you didn’t say the Witch-king would use the sea. He had no access to the sea, it would be irrelevant to the campaign. My point was that he couldn’t where as the crusaders had access to the sea and the First Crusade would probably have failed without it (see the arrival of the Genoese and English ships on 17 June 1099). The mere presence of the sea utterly changes the strategic situation and makes the siege of Minas Ithil and the siege of Jerusalem utterly different in nature (Now there’s a statement I never thought I would have to utter). Quote:
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...finding a path that cannot be found, walking a road that cannot be seen, climbing a ladder that was never placed, or reading a paragraph that has no... |
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#5 | ||||||
Shade of Carn Dûm
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 413
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If Napoleon could do that, over a much greater distance for a much larger army, it is then feasible that the Witch-King could have done so with a smaller distance, and then properly maintained it, as he had no worries of the Gondorians encircling him effectively, as the Russians had done to Napoleon after he fled Moscow on the Death March. Quote:
I do not see the orcs having much of a problem with this (and it might be preferred over their usual food). I also do not see them having a problem with eating the bodies of the dead if need be. And there would be plenty, either of their own side or of the Gondorians. Of course, Ithilien would provide a small amount of forage material in the early weeks and months of the campaign. Quote:
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It seems that without a superior warrior, such as Boromir, in their midst, Gondorian soldiers of the later Third Age don't seem to fair so well. While the same certainly goes for the Mordor armies, they did have the Wiki and the other Nazgul at Ithil. Quote:
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#6 | ||
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: In hospitals, call rooms and (rarely) my apartment.
Posts: 1,538
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And following up on that "desolate" idea... while you chose to use Napoleon and the Crusades as an example, let me use a more modern one. World War 2, Hitler's attack on the USSR. They too had an extremely long supply line, and that was their downfall. When winter came around, it acted pretty much as a "scorched earth" policy. The Russians retreated and left behind no resources for the Nazi armies, who had to ship everything from Germany. In the end, this turned out to be impossible, even though they had trucks and trains and airplanes. What does this have to do with all of this? Oh, very simple... Mordor was constantly desolate, it wasn't just one season in the year, it was a barren wasteland all year round. Not to mention that the same thing happened to Napoleon, winter came around and all of a sudden his (already stretched thin) supply line just couldn't cut it. So you chose to look at the "possitive side" but you are ignoring the fact that these armies fell... within a year!! How could the WK hold such long supply lines to support his siege for twice as long? And also... Quote:
And in the light of those "unconventional" situations, what is so rare about a haunting that demoralises the troops and leads a few scared souls to open the doors to an enemy that, otherwise, would not have been enough to besiege the city without being driven off by near-by Minas Tirith/Osgiliath forces?
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I prepared Explosive Runes this morning. |
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#7 | |||||
Shade of Carn Dûm
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 413
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The simplest explanation is usually the correct one. While there are some pitfalls in explaining the fullness of either argument, the idea of a traditional "siege" fits more easily with what Tolkien wrote, and is thus the simplest explanation (in going with exactly what Tolkien wrote). A Haunting requires so much more flushing out and it does not really fit with the definition of the word that Tolkien chose. I doubt Tolkien would have come up with an entirely new meaning for "siege" without explaining it. And Tolkien obviously did not write anything to the effect of the situation of a Haunting occurring. Thus, it is far more likely that the simplest idea, that of the traditionally defined siege, is the most correct and feasible one. |
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