The Fellowship of the Fourth Age (Part 1): A New Beginning Discussion Thread

[Child of the 7th Age]

This sounds good to me. I'll incorporate the horse into my post and the entry to the tent.

EDIT: Nogrod has been in contact reguarding Makdush's meeting with his character andwith Ishkur. I've taken down my save for now and will post later this weekend.

[Nogrod]

Just a question out of curiousness...

I think a few of the slavers did manage to get away alive. Now they should be heading towards their camp, naturally.

What happens then? It kind of mingles our overall plans that pay heed only to the ex-slaves / FS and the orcs or then I have overlooked something. I tried to skim both threads but couldn't find an answer to this.

If the remaining slavers are on horseback and ride fast, they will be at their camp probably a few hours before any "advance-group" will be there. So are the orcs sober enough to kill them and then they fall into their ale as they think they have won everything (a bad logic, I might say)?

Or do the slavers just see the drunken orcs in their camp from a distance and flee? (Was your idea, Child, here, that the wounded slaver and the one from the plantation would meet and talk the things Makdush might overhear? surely with a camp full of orcs they would not discuss things in the middle of it - or so near that someone could hear it from the camp?)

Or should we use a kind of Deus Ex Machina and make the Olog-hai to finish it with them (could they be this near and not then confront us others too early)?

Maybe they just flee as they see the camp occupied?

[Firefoot]

I was under the impression that only one slaver escaped from the fray...?

Concerning which Orcs should be among the first captured:

In some ways, I think it would be more interesting if there weren't any women among them (or if there were, I would argue against the female "child" being among them) simply because I think that it could build up the suspense better. If when the women make their plea for mercy, the ex-slaves are already aware of female and children, I think it would be less... meaningful? Or perhaps there is one female among those captured... I could see an argument for "it's just one," while if you have a female child already there it's less of a surprise and there would be less need for a change of mind than if there wasn't.

Does this make sense? I think it would be more interesting if the ex-slaves were on the point of killing the orcs when they realize there actually are (more) women and two children.

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Firefoot

I was under the impression that only one slaver escaped from the fray...?

Originally Posted by Durelin in the rpg

There came a shout retreat from one of the slavers who still persisted in battle: “Retreat, these dogs can bite!” The Easterling raged in his own tongue as he broke away from confrontation and took off out of the grove, almost stumbling over dead bodies as he went. The others followed as best they could.
[........]
The Easterling gripped Khamir’s knife as he turned around to face the one-armed man. The enemies’ eyes met, but neither attacked. The slaver threw the blade onto the ground and took off after his companions. Khamir watched him go, and did nothing.

And what happened to the one Aiwendil chased out from the battle?

Anyhow, there seems to be some slavers quite alive...

Originally Posted by Firefoot

Concerning which Orcs should be among the first captured:

In some ways, I think it would be more interesting if there weren't any women among them (or if there were, I would argue against the female "child" being among them) simply because I think that it could build up the suspense better. If when the women make their plea for mercy, the ex-slaves are already aware of female and children, I think it would be less... meaningful?

I'm not sure about that, but what I'm a little concerned of is that if the advance-party tumbles to 6-7 strongly drunken orcs (no females or children), what would hold their hands? Would there be any reason to "save" them until the rest would come and we'd get into discussing their fate as we have planned?

How about if we write it so that the advance-party comes in and is about to kill the male orcs when someone discovers a hiding orc-child. One of them should speak bravely not being ready to kill a child, orc or not, and they would then decide to just round them up and wait for others to make a decision over their fates? Or something? Any ideas?

[Firefoot]

How about if we write it so that the advance-party comes in and is about to kill the male orcs when someone discovers a hiding orc-child. One of them should speak bravely not being ready to kill a child, orc or not, and they would then decide to just round them up and wait for others to make a decision over their fates? Or something? Any ideas?

This is kind of along the lines of what Child and I have pm'ed about... (hope I'm not giving away any secrets here ) The idea was sort of that Grask would feel some loyalty to Ishkur, so if he, in hiding, saw that Ishkur was about to be killed, he would furiously run out waving his short sword and be captured as well. This would then open the door for one or more of the female orcs to plead for mercy.

[Child of the 7th Age]

I'm not sure about that, but what I'm a little concerned of is that if the advance-party tumbles to 6-7 strongly drunken orcs (no females or children), what would hold their hands? Would there be any reason to "save" them until the rest would come and we'd get into discussing their fate as we have planned?

How about if we write it so that the advance-party comes in and is about to kill the male orcs when someone discovers a hiding orc-child. One of them should speak bravely not being ready to kill a child, orc or not, and they would then decide to just round them up and wait for others to make a decision over their fates? Or something? Any ideas?

I don't think this is a problem given the fact that Lindir will be leading the advance party. As I said before, Lindir will require the others to "stay their hand". Let me explain at greater length.

First, we have two situations when the orcs' lives are at stake. The first instance is when the advance party stumbles into the slavers' camp and discovers drunk orcs who are sleeping off their excesses from the night before. Lindir will be in charge of this little party, since he has the stamp of approval of Ellessar and more experience than anyone in the group. (Once it comes to establishing the settlement, this will definitely change but for now on the road it seems the most reasonable choice.) Lindir has killed plenty of orcs in battle over several thousand years. However, he has never run any enemies through in their sleep, and is not about to start now. Nor will he allow others under his command to run through people who are sleeping.

He will give an order to hold off on killing. I expect that there may be grumbles and mumbles and worse from some of the other characters but that is alright. He will stand his ground and insist. Moreover, there is another critical reason to keep these orcs alive at least till the point they can talk. (They are now incoherent.) Our group has no idea if this is simply a few stragglers from a much larger party lurking about on the plain, or if this handful is all there is. If we kill them, we will be killing our only possible source of information. Lindir will try to get the orcs to talk, perhaps even with a promise of being set free. Methinks they may not answer but that is something that can be worked out in the actual game thread.

The second time the orcs' lives are at stake is the next day when everyone shows up and there is an official "inquisition". Firefoot and Regin and Undomie (as seen in Firefoot's post above) already have plans for a little trick similar to what you've suggested. Without going into details, they will be using both Grask's youth and the women's plea to soften some hearts.

_____________

Regarding the slavers....yes, there are a number alive. I really couldn't give an exact number and I don't think we ever actually say. Imak is alive and the man chased by the boar. There were probably others in that last assault. I am personally comfortable with having this as a loose end. The reality of battle is that some soldiers wander off, especially when they sense their own forces have lost. I imagine these folk would hightail it back to the south, although there is always the possibility they could raise a head at some point in the story. But I don't think we're talking about more than a few loose ends. My gut feeling is that life has lots of loose ends so I don't mind one or two surfacing in a story. Tolkien himself was certainly an expert at loose ends, as so much is hinted at but never discussed or even intentionally passed over.

You had earlier suggested by pm that I not use any of these escaped slavers in my post, and I had agreed to have Makdush talk directly to Ishmur and Gwerr. So at this point, I don't think they will surface in the storyline.

_____________

Firefoot -

You make a good point about the younger girl. I'd be very comfortable with having her stay "free" and surface at the same time that Grask does.

[Nogrod]

About the slavers: Loose ends are alright with me too. Although I would just wish to rise this possibility to our shared consciousness: they probably didn't just ran away as they had all their belongings in their camp and Imak had all his fortune there. So they probably headed back to their camp but were frightened by the sight of the orcs having taken over it and didn't think it wise to try their luck another time the same night (they couldn't be sure how many orcs there were) and then rode away before any orc could notice them...

That would make Imak practically mad, though... (nice stuff if we can afford new twists in the storyline later on: a regrouped and replenished party of slavers led by blazing-angry Imak trailing these people & orcs for his treasure! Just a possibility, though.)

About the plot from orc-perspective: Okay. It seems I was the only one who didn't know how things were going to turn out... Go on and execute the plan and Gwerr will follow it. (So is it now that Ishkur, Makdush and Gwerr slip away as they hear the advance party coming and then make an effort to save the prisoners?)

But just on general level I think that any plotting that concerns the basic outline of the storyline should be openly discussed so that also those outside the scheming-circles would know when not to bother thinking how things will unfold and thence save their time and effort - and eventually not raise an issue over things that have been already decided by others. It has been pretty stupid that I have tried to open a discussion about how things will go and only slowly have I learnt that my questions have basically been in vain as most things had been settled already without me having the faintest idea about it...

I feel myself such a fool.

But I'll get over it.