Silmarillion - Chapter 08 - Of the Darkening of Valinor

[mhagain]

I find the newer story of the death of the trees to be somewhat weaker. In the earlier one, where Melkor pierces them and Ungoliant sucks out their light and life, it's far more explicit that this is a deliberate attempt to destroy the bliss of Valinor. Of course, the story may have evolved that this wasn't his actual motive, and that Ungoliant was merely to be a distraction while he went about his real work - stealing the Silmarils. But somehow having Melkor as the prime mover in the death of the Trees is - to me - a much stronger and more coherent device.

Regarding Ungoliant, I tend to view her as a "neutral" Ainu. One of those who desired Arda and went down into it, but didn't ally herself with either side. In that sense, her motivation is personal gain, which certainly fits with her character as described, as she is not concerned with nor interested in specifically doing evil, but merely with satisfying her lust for light. She certainly would have the whole world for her belly!

[Hilde Bracegirdle]

Yes, Ungoliant does seem to be some how related to those beings that were around before Arda was. And she does seem neutral, serving only her own appetite, but the Ainur were the holy ones, and the offspring of Ilúvatar’s thought. Was Ungoliant the product of some darker mood as one of the Ainur, or was she perhaps something else? Could there have been other beings created that were of his thought, but not holy? Or did some exist independant of Ilúvatar’s thought altogether? I doubt the later.

Originally Posted by Of the Darkening of Valinor

In a ravine she lived, and took shape as a spider of monstrous form, weaving her black webs in a cleft of the mountains. There she sucked up all the light that she could find, and spun it forth again in dark nets of strangling gloom, until no light more could come to her abode; and she was famished.

Also….

A cloak of darkness she wove about them when Melkor and Ungoliant set forth: an Unlight, in which things seemed to be no more, and which eyes could not pierce, for it was void.

Ungoliant took the shape of a spider. We have previously been told that the Valar could take on a shape, or put on the raiment of the Earth. But this in itself is not solid evidence that she was not terrestrial, putting aside the elves speculation. After all, she could be a sort of primeval skin changer. What is more interesting to me is the talents that she has, they do seem supernatural. She seems a bit of an anti-Varda. And like a mirror of Varda and Manwe’s productive relationship, Ungoliant effectively aids Melkor, but for her own selfish reasons.

Interesting too, is how Tolkien chose to have her consume light, of all things. She perhaps can not destroy it, but swallows it up, concealing it, giving off her Unlight ‘in which things seem to be no more, and which eyes could not pierce, for it was void’. This seems somehow in opposition to Ilúvatar, a type of illusory uncreation. Notice the use of the word 'void' as well. It is a small ‘v’ here, and yet I suspect that Ungoliant knows ‘the Void’ very well. My guess is that she is a creature of it.

[Raynor]

My guess is that she is a creature of it.

Well, that would presume two things: that the void can bring about to existence new creatures; that these creatures could enter Ea (or that Eru would allow it). As far as I know, both ideas are unwarranted, esspecially the first, seeing that Eru is consistently described as the only source of sentient beings.

[Hilde Bracegirdle]

Yes, I did doubt the later. But is Iluvatar capable of having thoughts that come into being that are not necessarily holy? This is not to say that they are evil, but just not of the same level as the main players we read about.

[Raynor]

Originally Posted by Hilde Bracegirdle

Yes, I did doubt the later. But is Iluvatar capable of having thoughts that come into being that are not necessarily holy? This is not to say that they are evil, but just not of the same level as the main players we read about.

I don't think there is something he is not able to do, unless he so wishes. In various places Tolkien speculates how intentions, events and actions all depend on Eru, so that even evil requires his "toleration". However, we should note that all the ainur were created good, and Elrond too sustains this idea at the Council ("nothing is evil in the beginning).

[William Cloud Hicklin]

One might speculate that Ungoliant was an 'unintended consequence' of Melkor's discord: he didn't consciously create her, or corrupt her like the Balrogs, but rather she came in to being as a sort of embodiment of the dissonance Melkor introduced into the Music, like volcanoes and earthquakes- and just possibly an analogue to Bombadil, whom I've always envisioned as a sort of self-aware 'exhalation' of Middle-earth.

[Raynor]

he didn't consciously create her, or corrupt her like the Balrogs

The text implies that he actually did corrupt her as he did with the balrogs

Originally Posted by Of the darkening of Valinor, Silmarillion

The Eldar knew not whence she came; but some have said that in ages long before she descended from the darkness that lies about Arda, when Melkor first looked down in envy upon the Kingdom of Manwe, and that in the beginning she was one of those that he corrupted to his service.

A similar statement is given in the Annals of Aman version.

Originally Posted by Entry for the year of the trees 1492

It may well be that Melkor, if none other, knew of her, being and her abode, and that she was in the beginning one of those that he had corrupted to his service.