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Old 03-02-2007, 06:18 AM   #1
Lord Melkor
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Lord Melkor has just left Hobbiton.
Yes.

I don't have the exact quote at hand but when Dain returned after the Battle of Azanulbizar he was greatly shaken and told Thrain that the time to return to Moria had not yet come
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Old 03-02-2007, 09:52 AM   #2
The Might
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Very true Lord Melkor, I thought I should give the quote to clear things up a bit more:

Quote:
Then Thrain [color=black]turned to Da[/color]in, and said: "But surely my own kin will not desert me?" "No," said Dain, "You are the father of our Folk, and we have bled for you, and will again. But we will not enter Khazad-dum. You will not enter Khazad-dum. Only I have looked through the shadow of the gate. Beyond the shadow it waits for you still: Durin's Bane. The world must change and some other power than ours must come before Durin's Folk walk again in Moria. ~ LOTR, Appendix A, Durin's Folk
Actually, now that I re-read this passage it sounds as a bit of a prophecy to me, similar to the prophecy made by Glorfindel about the Witch-king. Clearly, Dain possessed enough wisdom to realise that the Dwarves would never be strong enough to defeat Durin's Bane on their own. Fortunately for them, this other power appeared in the form of Gandalf the Grey.

However, I definitely don't agree with the idea of an agreement between Sauron and Durin's Bane. I see it more as a relation between Sauron and Shelob. Shelob helped Sauron indirectly by making sure nobody made it alive through her lair, but she had no real wish to serve him.

Also, I am not so sure whether the Balrog actually cared about anyone passing through Moria as long as he wasn't disturbed. During Balin's reign the Dwarves were able to reach as far as to the West Gate so clearly if they had wished to exit Moria they could have (except the unfortunate episode with Oin and the Watcher). Neither the Balrog nor the Watcher were in any way serving Sauron knowingly, it was just a lucky coincidence for him that they were present there.

As for the Orcs, they clearly respected and served the Balrog, however this doesn't mean they didn't have their own pride. Azog's time as "ruler" of Moria shows that not all Orcs were necessarily also serving the Balrog, which leads me to the conclusion that the Balrog didn't care much about what was going on as long as he was ok.
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Old 03-02-2007, 12:04 PM   #3
Rumil
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Rumil has been trapped in the Barrow!
Eye

I wonder if it was the presence of Gandalf, as well as the presence of the ring, which roused the Balrog to attack the Fellowship.

I imagine that maiar could sense one-anothers' presence and that the Balrog would have considered Gandalf a threat to 'his' domain, while Balin's Dwarven colonists provoked no such response as they were beings of little 'power' in the view of the Balrog.

Maybe!
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