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#1 | |
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Essex, England
Posts: 886
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Whereas, for example, the Numenorian blade that Merry used WAS proved to help destroy the Witch King as it was mentioned in the text by the 'narrator' but to add a further twist to this, can we even trust the 'narrator' of the story, as the LOTR was supposedly handed down from the notes taken by Bilbo / Frodo / Sam after the War of the Ring was completed? What do THEY know of this supernatural blade that was used on the Witch King? - maybe I should delete this last paragraph as it may send as down another cul-de-sac of opinion, denial and arguments........... |
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#2 | |
Eagle of the Star
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Sarmisegethuza
Posts: 1,058
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Aragorn knew:
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__________________
"May the wicked become good. May the good obtain peace. May the peaceful be freed from bonds. May the freed set others free." |
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#3 |
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Essex, England
Posts: 886
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well said. that is very interesting. so we CAN forget my last paragraph at least.
but what of the rest? Can we take a character's opinion to be Cannon? I don't think so...... |
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#4 | |
Guest
Posts: n/a
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Gandalf made the claim of being the most dangerous opponent after Sauron on the basis of defeating a Balrog, & through his enhanced powers after his resurrection, so he is a proven force. The Witch King, however, is not proven in combat at the highest level. In previous encounters with Gandalf & Aragorn he has failed, & he did not fancy a duel with Glorfindel either. So there is nothing to measure the power of the Witch King against. Does anyone know if Mordor had news of Gandalf defeating the Balrog? The Witch King obviously seemed not to have known. Last edited by Mansun; 03-08-2007 at 01:22 PM. |
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#5 | |||
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
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The bottom line of the Gandalf v. W-K debate, which is easily demonstrated and I have done so elsewhere, is that Gandalf's enemy, to whom he was an equal match and thus appropriately chosen, was Sauron, not the Witch-King. The Witch-King was a lesser being (by far, in fact) than Sauron his master. This type of discussion promotes oversimplification, though. Tolkien's definitions of power are complex, and reducing the question to who would win in one-on-one duels is misleading. One of the things that complicates things is that duels do happen, so we know that questions of "power" are not purely metaphysical, but even so the victory is generally determined on a metaphysical level, i.e. the more powerful "spirit" ought to be victorious. I explain here. Quote:
As feebly as Essex makes his sappy point about the small overcoming the great, I do understand it. The idea does not apply to David and Goliath, nor to Merry and the Witch-King, nor to anything in LotR that I can think of. However, the potential of an example ever occurring probably can't be unequivocally denied. Still, there are evidently some barriers which simply can't be transcended: Quote:
Last edited by obloquy; 03-08-2007 at 05:33 PM. |
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#6 | |
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Essex, England
Posts: 886
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THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT THE WHOLE BOOK IS ABOUT. The weak overcoming the strong. Frodo overcame the WK's attempt to subdue him at Weathertop. He again overcame their attempts to persaude him to com over to their side at the Ford. With his compassion towards Gollum, he helped to destroy Sauron. |
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#7 | ||||
Eagle of the Star
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Sarmisegethuza
Posts: 1,058
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__________________
"May the wicked become good. May the good obtain peace. May the peaceful be freed from bonds. May the freed set others free." |
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#8 | |||
Doubting Dwimmerlaik
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Heaven's basement
Posts: 2,466
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__________________
There is naught that you can do, other than to resist, with hope or without it.
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#9 | |||
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
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