Gollum or Golem

[Boromir88]

I'm not really sure if Gollum could be classified as a monster either...I've never really understood how the 'artists' got their visions for Smeagol/Gollum.

In The Hobbit Gollum has pants (or at least some form of clothing with pockets)...where the idea that he had a small loincloth came from I don't know. But a lot of 'reputable' artists (Alan Lee, Hildebrandt, Nasmith...etc) depict Gollum as only having a loincloth.

Also Gollum must of had quite a bit of hair considering in Emyn Muil Frodo pulled Gollum up by the 'lank of his hair.' Yet most artists depict Gollum as bald or nearly bald.

I'm sure he was malnutritioned from food and lack of sunlight. Also Gandalf says he was a 'gangle' creature...or someone that walks/moves awkwardly. I'm pretty sure we're also told he had few teeth. But I don't know if 'monster' is a good word for describing Gollum. Afterall Gandalf and Frodo found Pity for him...and as Gandalf remarks once he got out of his 'hiding hole' he 'grew stronger and bolder' because of the new air and new food.

Anyway, onto Golems...I think the Orcs would fit much better under 'golems.' They were slaves (and called ant-like) under the domination of Morgoth and Sauron. In Tolkien's earliest writings Morgoth made the Orcs out of rocks and clay (very golem-esque)...though he would scrap that idea. Still I think the Orcs are the best fit. And even the Orcs had a free will, though it seemed to be a rare occurance...the Orcs could beg and plead for mercy, and Shagrat and Gorbag's conversation is quite revealing towards the ability of Orcs to have a free will.

I would say Gollum certainly does have a free will...though he was under strong influence of the Ring, his redemption was still possible...and he was almost redeemed. I also disagree with the author of the article you link to, saying Gollum 'in the end destroys himself.' As Tolkien tells us several times Eru intervened and caused the Ring's destruction (hence causing Gollum's fall).

Eventhough if I disagree, a very intriguing thread that can get some good discussion going. Also, so far I think the whole Golem/Gollum thing is a bit vague. There's some vague statements like 'Gollum had no free will' and 'Gollum is very similar to Golem,' therefor Gollum is like a Golem. These may be true if you can expand and show some examples. But often with large and vague statements you will find a loose connection, but dig a bit deeper and you realize there really is no connection there.

Edit:

Also Gandalf says he was a 'gangle' creature...or someone that walks/moves awkwardly.

After a kind tap on the shoulder...I botched this one a bit. Gandalf actually refers to Gollum as a 'gangrel' creature; and I'll just give you the explanation I received:

Gangrel is a classic Tolkien word: it's a rare dialect expression derived from Middle English, but its roots probably go all the way back to Old English gengan: 'to pass, to go'.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

I'd second Boro. I think actually Gollum and Golem is very, very improbable to have any connection. I never thought of Gollum not having free will: actually, he has pretty lot of free will. And the Ring... even the Ring didn't totally enslave him. No, certainly not. The Nazgul have no free will, for example ("they have no other will than his own"). But Gollum?

Originally Posted by FotR, Chapter 2 - Shadow of the Past

Even Gollum was not wholly ruined. He had proved tougher than even one of the Wise would have guessed -as a hobbit might. There was a little corner of his mind that was still his own, and light came through it, as through a chink in the dark: light out of the past. It was actually pleasant, I think, to hear a kindly voice again, bringing up memories of wind, and trees, and sun on the grass, and such forgotten things.
But that, of course, would only make the evil part of him angrier in the end – unless it could be conquered. Unless it could be cured." Gandalf sighed.
"Alas! there is little hope of that for him. Yet not no hope. No, not though he possessed the Ring so long, almost as far back as he can remember. For it was long since he had worn it much: in the black darkness it was seldom needed. Certainly he had never "faded". He is thin and tough still. But the thing was eating up his mind, of course, and the torment had become almost unbearable."

Nothing more, nothing less. It has became almost unbearable for him - but he still remained himself.

Originally Posted by Boromir88

Anyway, onto Golems...I think the Orcs would fit much better under 'golems.' They were slaves (and called ant-like) under the domination of Morgoth and Sauron. In Tolkien's earliest writings Morgoth made the Orcs out of rocks and clay (very golem-esque)...though he would scrap that idea. Still I think the Orcs are the best fit. And even the Orcs had a free will, though it seemed to be a rare occurance...the Orcs could beg and plead for mercy, and Shagrat and Gorbag's conversation is quite revealing towards the ability of Orcs to have a free will.

I have always imagined the Trolls possibly more like Golem. No free will, made of stone... the Orcs, exactly as you said about Gorbag and Shagrat, seem to (at least in the final revision) have free will. But I know, I know, there are other topics about it...

[The Might]

Making Monsters?
Do you by any chance study at Hogwarts?
As far as your question is concerned, I too doubt there is a connection.
I would personally rather see the Silent Watchers at the entrance to Cirith Ungol as golem-like creatures.
They were made of inanimate substance, and they also seem to have no wills of their own, other then to do their job and keep any intruders out. Also, as golems, they never speak.
As far as Gollum is concerned, I guess Legate and Boromir have already explained it very well.

[Mithalwen]

Originally Posted by Boromir88

Anyway, onto Golems...I think the Orcs would fit much better under 'golems.' They were slaves (and called ant-like) under the domination of Morgoth and Sauron. In Tolkien's earliest writings Morgoth made the Orcs out of rocks and clay (very golem-esque)...though he would scrap that idea. Still I think the Orcs are the best fit. And even the Orcs had a free will, though it seemed to be a rare occurance...the Orcs could beg and plead for mercy, and Shagrat and Gorbag's conversation is quite revealing towards the ability of Orcs to have a free will.

:

Coincidentally I read something in Shippey's "Road to Middle Earth" which suggests something rather like this as a solution to the "problem of orcs" which Tolkien didn't quite grasp despite having gathered the pieces.

As for Golems - I came across a short story called The Golem in an anthology while researching my dissertation. I pounced on it because of the Tolkien links (it wasn't too relevant to my main man Maupassant ...) and was naturally somewaht disappointed to find that despite being genuinely creepy it had no evident connection to the slinking Smeagol.

I do think it interesting though that Smaug's name has a similar meaning to Smeagol though from Old German smugen (squeeze through a hole)...

Since Gollum could not bear the touch of anything elvish I doubt that he would have worn any clothing they may have provided him with in captivity after his escape, unless his original clothes were peculiarly durable he must have either stolen some or gone naked. Both are possible - many observers think him some kind of animal which seems less likely if he were clothed however the woodmen's reports make it possible that he stole some clothes from them which raises the interesting psychology of Gollum being motivated to cover his nakedness even when he was slipping "through windows to find cradles".... of course he could just have been cold....

However having gone to the Lord of the Rings exhibition and been confronted with the nether regions of a loincloth free troll (at eye level too..), I am grateful for the small mercy and remarkable staying power of Gollum's hanky and piece of string.....

[Brinniel]

Originally Posted by Boromir88

But I don't know if 'monster' is a good word for describing Gollum.

Well, whether Gollum is a monster or not can indeed be arguable. It all depends on how one defines the word. While one definition of monster can mean "an imaginary creature usually having various human and animal parts," the word can also mean "freak: a person or animal that is markedly unusual or deformed." (as found on this site)

Yes, I know this is a stretch. I'm not saying Gollum is just like a golem, after all, the two have many difference, very obvious differences in fact. Searching through the internet, I noticed this topic has been discussed many times before - and I am most certainly not the first to wonder this. I cannot find any solid evidence on whether or not Tolkien actually intended connection between the two, so I suppose this must remain pure speculation.

Originally Posted by Boromir88

I would say Gollum certainly does have a free will...though he was under strong influence of the Ring, his redemption was still possible...and he was almost redeemed.

Indeed redemption was possible. But I was always under the impression that it was only because of Smeagol.

Gollum was a split personality. The Smeagol side of him certainly did have plenty of free will, and it is what kept him from becoming entirely enslaved to the One Ring.

Completely severing Smeagol from the picture, I am strictly examining the Gollum side to this character. If you look at Gollum, not Smeagol, but just Gollum, does he really have free will of his own? It seems to me that all his actions, as well as his words, are done through the influence of the Ring. After all, it was the Ring that created Gollum, and if Smeagol had never found it, Gollum would not exist. While I do agree that there are other creatures in LotR that probably better represent the golem, such as the orcs and the trolls, I still think a connection is still possible between Gollum and the golem, however slight it may be.

Originally Posted by ninja91

By the way, where is this course you are taking? It sounds fun.

Originally Posted by The Might

Making Monsters?
Do you by any chance study at Hogwarts?

Hehe..if only I were studying at Hogwarts.
My course is officially called Making Monsters: The Manifestation of Fear- a class I'm taking this semester at my school Emerson College (one of the many schools in Boston). In this class, we basically study the origins of monsters and fear by watching monster films and reading monster literature...as well as doing our own projects. Some of the monsters we study are Gilgamesh, Beowulf (we even read an essay by Tolkien), werewolves, and vampires. Of course, right now we're learning about golems and Frankenstein. Quite a fun course really. Who knew you could watch zombie films for educational purposes?

[The Squatter of Amon Rûdh]

I do think it interesting though that Smaug's name has a similar meaning to Smeagol though from Old German smugen (squeeze through a hole)...

It is indeed very interesting. The two words are actually related: Primitive Germanic is the postulated common ancestor of all Germanic languages. You may remember the following from The Road to Middle Earth.

[Smaug's] name is another 'asterisk word', being the past tense *smaug of a Germanic verb *smugan 'to squeeze through a hole', as Tolkien said in his 1938 Observer letter; also the Old Norse equivalent of an English magic word found in a spell wið sméogan wyrme, 'against the penetrating worm'. But he has a mental sense as well as a physical one, since O.E. sméagan also means 'to inquire into' and in adjectival form 'subtle, crafty'.

T.A. Shippey, The Road to Middle Earth 3rd ed. ch.3 The Bourgeois Burglar, p.102.