If the Children of Húrin was filmed... - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Sauron the White · 03-28-2007, 01:13 PM

Mithalwen - thank you for that explaination. So if we remove the money from the bequest, that still leave some 3 million pounds or 6 million US dollars in increased revenues from pre-film years. And then there is also the continued level of higher sales and revenues from pre-film years. Both figures are significant and substantial.

These funds do NOT represent all the money paid to the Tolkien Estate from book royalties do they? Perhaps I am not again reading this correctly and there are other explainations, but it seems that the films - regardless of how they were accepted by CT and family - did put a great deal of additional revenues into the pockets of CT, the Estate, their Trust and other family members.

That was my point in the previous post.

We are led to believe that CT does not approve of the movies. One can even say that CT would rather the films had never been made and the only version we have of Middle-earth would be the one his father constructed in his books. That is fine. My point was simply that it is an interesting stance for Christoper to adopt since he has benefitted significantly from the films themselves.

The phrase "having your cake and eating it too" applies here. Of course, once you eat your cake, you can no longer have it for it is gone. That is the irony of the situation. CT has found a way to have his cake (spurn the films and their vision of his fathers Middle-earth) and eat it at the same time (enjoy the revenues from vastly increased book sales due to the films popularity). No small accomplishment.

The webpage of the Tolkien Estate says they have no plans to sell film or other rights to COH. I take them at their word.

davem · 03-28-2007, 02:00 PM

Just a note - I don't think CT 'spurned' the movies. Its more that he felt they could not adequately present his father's creation. There is a lot of nonsense going around that CT was 'anti' the movies - even angry about them. I think if he was really 'anti' the movies then Alan Lee would not have been asked to produce the paintings for CoH.

As to the monetary side & who gets how much of what, its all beyond me, being, as I am, a bear of very little brain, but the fact that the family did not have to do anything but live a very comfortable life on the proceedings of their father's work, I think what they have done in setting up the Trust deserves nothing but respect.

Of course the Estate (& therefore the Trust) benefitted greatly from the revenue generated by the movies, but what would one expect them to do - turn it down? As I said, neither CT nor any other member of the family has made any disparaging or negative comments about the movies - CT merely expressed his personal feelings about the inadequacy of the medium to do justice to his father's vision. The movies were made & as a result the Estate gained the means to do some good work. If there's a problem there its hidden from me....

Sauron the White · 03-28-2007, 02:07 PM

So there is no validity to the story that after Royd Tolkien appeared as a Gondorian ranger in the film he was shut out of Estate matters by his father who was angry at him?

davem · 03-28-2007, 02:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sauron the White

So there is no validity to the story that after Royd Tolkien appeared as a Gondorian ranger in the film he was shut out of Estate matters by his father who was angry at him?

None. Royd was not a member of the Estate (if I can put it that way, & Royd was Tolkien's great grandson, not Christopher's son. The 'story' that was going around was that Christopher had refused to have anything to do with his son Simon after Simon expressed approval of the movies & as far as I'm aware Royd was Michael's grandson. Family tree http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tolkien...#Simon_Tolkien. There is a statement by CT released via his lawyers here http://tolkiennews.net/article.php?s...61005151054723 the essential part being

Quote:

# There was no dispute between Christopher Tolkien and his son, Simon Tolkien, as a result of Simon Tolkien going to see the first Lord of the Rings film.
# Simon Tolkien was never on the Board of any Tolkien company and was not 'removed' from any such position by Christopher Tolkien.
# Nor has Christopher Tolkien 'disowned' Simon Tolkien.

Sauron the White · 03-28-2007, 02:43 PM

Thank you for clarifying that. Although I never did claim that Royd was Christopher's son - only that "his father" did not like his film appearance. His father, of course being one of the Tolkien Estate members. But your valuable link cleared that up for me.

If all this is true, I wonder how all these nasty stories get started leading folks like me to believe that the Tolkien Estate - and Christoper in particular - did not like or approve of the movies? I could have sworn than I have read this many times in many places over the last few years. I certainly cannot remember ever seeing the opposite - that Christopher or any other member of the Estate was thankful for the films, was thankful for the additional revenue they produced for them, or at the least had even enjoyed them.

davem · 03-28-2007, 02:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sauron the White

If all this is true, I wonder how all these nasty stories get started leading folks like me to believe that the Tolkien Estate - and Christoper in particular - did not like or approve of the movies? I could have sworn than I have read this many times in many places over the last few years. I certainly cannot remember ever seeing the opposite - that Christopher or any other member of the Estate was thankful for the films, was thankful for the additional revenue they produced for them, or at the least had even enjoyed them.

I've never seen any adverse comments by any family member re the movies - apart from the usual unsubstantiated hearsay - what have you seen? I don't see why Christopher or any other family member should have to express approval - or say anything about anything at all. They aren't public figures. Maybe some of them saw the movies & really enjoyed them - but they aren't film critics either. I'm not being antagonistic here, but why would they feel any need to comment? They have used the profits to support good causes - & they don't discuss those either.

Sauron the White · 03-28-2007, 03:03 PM

Is CT a public figure? Probably all in the definition of the term.

from davem

Quote:

They have used the profits to support good causes - & they don't discuss those either.

Yes they have used profits for good purposes and my hat is off to them. They have helped many good and worth causes. I also see where some of those charitable contributions support Tolkien related research and papers. Fine. But lets make that distinction when we hand out the praise.

I ask again, if anyone knows -- were ALL film profits used in this manner or do the charity contributions represent a PARTIAL amount of the profits from increased royalty revenue as a result of the films popularity?

03-28-2007, 02:00 PM	#2
davem Illustrious Ulair Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: In the home of lost causes, and forsaken beliefs, and unpopular names,and impossible loyalties Posts: 4,240	Just a note - I don't think CT 'spurned' the movies. Its more that he felt they could not adequately present his father's creation. There is a lot of nonsense going around that CT was 'anti' the movies - even angry about them. I think if he was really 'anti' the movies then Alan Lee would not have been asked to produce the paintings for CoH. As to the monetary side & who gets how much of what, its all beyond me, being, as I am, a bear of very little brain, but the fact that the family did not have to do anything but live a very comfortable life on the proceedings of their father's work, I think what they have done in setting up the Trust deserves nothing but respect. Of course the Estate (& therefore the Trust) benefitted greatly from the revenue generated by the movies, but what would one expect them to do - turn it down? As I said, neither CT nor any other member of the family has made any disparaging or negative comments about the movies - CT merely expressed his personal feelings about the inadequacy of the medium to do justice to his father's vision. The movies were made & as a result the Estate gained the means to do some good work. If there's a problem there its hidden from me.... __________________ “Everything was an object. If you killed a dwarf you could use it as a weapon – it was no different to other large heavy objects."

03-28-2007, 01:13 PM	#1
Sauron the White Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 903	Mithalwen - thank you for that explaination. So if we remove the money from the bequest, that still leave some 3 million pounds or 6 million US dollars in increased revenues from pre-film years. And then there is also the continued level of higher sales and revenues from pre-film years. Both figures are significant and substantial. These funds do NOT represent all the money paid to the Tolkien Estate from book royalties do they? Perhaps I am not again reading this correctly and there are other explainations, but it seems that the films - regardless of how they were accepted by CT and family - did put a great deal of additional revenues into the pockets of CT, the Estate, their Trust and other family members. That was my point in the previous post. We are led to believe that CT does not approve of the movies. One can even say that CT would rather the films had never been made and the only version we have of Middle-earth would be the one his father constructed in his books. That is fine. My point was simply that it is an interesting stance for Christoper to adopt since he has benefitted significantly from the films themselves. The phrase "having your cake and eating it too" applies here. Of course, once you eat your cake, you can no longer have it for it is gone. That is the irony of the situation. CT has found a way to have his cake (spurn the films and their vision of his fathers Middle-earth) and eat it at the same time (enjoy the revenues from vastly increased book sales due to the films popularity). No small accomplishment. The webpage of the Tolkien Estate says they have no plans to sell film or other rights to COH. I take them at their word.

03-28-2007, 02:07 PM	#3
Sauron the White Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 903	So there is no validity to the story that after Royd Tolkien appeared as a Gondorian ranger in the film he was shut out of Estate matters by his father who was angry at him?

03-28-2007, 02:43 PM	#5
Sauron the White Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 903	Thank you for clarifying that. Although I never did claim that Royd was Christopher's son - only that "his father" did not like his film appearance. His father, of course being one of the Tolkien Estate members. But your valuable link cleared that up for me. If all this is true, I wonder how all these nasty stories get started leading folks like me to believe that the Tolkien Estate - and Christoper in particular - did not like or approve of the movies? I could have sworn than I have read this many times in many places over the last few years. I certainly cannot remember ever seeing the opposite - that Christopher or any other member of the Estate was thankful for the films, was thankful for the additional revenue they produced for them, or at the least had even enjoyed them.