Denethor's plunge

[alatar]

Originally Posted by Knight of Gondor

I do not think this is plausible. The fire brought by the (senseless) guards was real enough.

Sure, the fire was real, but was the fire that engulfed the running Steward real? In the scene where Shadowfax attacks Denethor, the film makers realized that the real horse would be afraid of the real flames. Virtual flames were tried, but didn't look real enough, and so a mirror was used - watch the Appendix material on the DVDs for more.

Anyway, so real flames appeared to be cooking Faramir, yet actually were elsewhere. Could Denethor's flames also be illusionary in the same manner? Gandalf did use a white light to chase off the Nazzies once on the Pelennor Fields, and so we can assume that he had knowledge of optics.

Pippin feared for Faramir's life because of the flames. And Denethor's groaning in pain couldn't be just put on.

Pippin was mostly concerned that his wardrobe's future prospects were protected. And, speaking of Pippin, I too groaned in pain when the hobbit and his partner bounced on Frodo's bed later in the movie, yet I wasn't on fire (though may have wished that it were so).

Originally Posted by Bêthberry

Or else they are suggesting something about Denethor's sense of himself as having proportions almost approaching that of a deity.

But Denethor was consumed, both physically and mentally. And even the memory of the Leaping Steward of Fire will burn out eventually.

So, I'm not sure if the bush or the fire was actually doing the speaking,

No one reported any last words from the Steward, flaming or not, after he hit the ground, or at least more than "whoop!"

Originally Posted by davem

We know Denethor wore armour under his robes, so it is possible that the flames of the Pyre simply burned off the robes & that the 'flames' were actually a reflection of the fires burning the lower levels of the city.

Think that it would depend on what he wore under the armour. We bought a stainless steel tea kettle, more for looks than utility (who drinks tea?), and I've burned my fingers more than once when grabbing the steel handle, as the metal conducts heat rather well. If Denethor wore dish towels or a garment made of oven mitts under his steel rings, then he may have survived the initial fire well enough to run with the illusionary one as far as he did.

Freak atmospheric conditions...

In the world of Middle Earth, one only wonders what would be considered freak atmospheric conditions...

[davem]

Originally Posted by alatar

Think that it would depend on what he wore under the armour. We bought a stainless steel tea kettle, more for looks than utility (who drinks tea?), and I've burned my fingers more than once when grabbing the steel handle, as the metal conducts heat rather well. If Denethor wore dish towels or a garment made of oven mitts under his steel rings, then he may have survived the initial fire well enough to run with the illusionary one as far as he did.

It is a little know fact of Middle-earth history that Denethor was a bit of a fashion icon & began the short lived trend of wearing asbestos underwear. This accounts for his lack of fear at being around smokers like Gandalf, whose pipe tended to spew out large sparks when he got angry, igniting unwary bystanders. Gandalf usually explained this as the result of the Secret Fire but nobody believed him. In actual fact the story of Denethor lighting his & Faramir's pyre in a final desperate act of self immolation was Gandalf's own invention (supported by Pippin): the truth was that Denethor had taken the feverish Faramir to the Hallows because it was the coolest place in the city & Gandalf pursued him there to steal his underwear for protection among the fires raging on the First Level (Gandalf's exact words being, as reported by a drunken Pippin many years later, 'I need his pants more than he does!!'). In the angry confrontation that ensued sparks from Gandalf's pipe ignited the sheets on Faramir's bier which Denethor in a last, desperate act of fatherly devotion attempted to extinguish. This lead to Denethor's cloak & tunis bursting into flame. The Steward was of course immune to harm due to his protective undergarments & on seeing that Pippin had put out the fire, made a run for it with Gandalf in hot pursuit crying out to the guards to stop the fleeing Steward in the now infamous words 'Stop that man & remove his pants & vest!! I have a battle to fight!!'

Denethor managed to avoid the stunned guards & run out to the court of the Fountain where he hoped to extinguish the flames & steal a horse & make for his summer residence in the vales of Lebennin, but Gandalf was too close behind & Denethor chose Death rather than dishonour & hurled himself from the pinacle with the cry 'You'll have to pry them from my cold, dead botty!'

Thus perished Denethor son of Ecthelion......

[FeRaL sHaDoW]

you have forgotten one thing tho, Denethor was a track star.

[Elfchick7]

hahahaha

These post are so funny! The scene of Denethor's plunge was undoubtedly an absurd one.

I remember seeing it for the first time and thinking, "What the heck!?!!"

[calandil]

hey guys,
give pj a break!!
the image of of denethor falling of the 7th level is one of the most iconic images of the movie!
it would not have looked good if he just fell dead in the room,eh?
there is also the case of cinematic license!

[ninja91]

Originally Posted by calandil

hey guys,
give pj a break!!
the image of of denethor falling of the 7th level is one of the most iconic images of the movie!
it would not have looked good if he just fell dead in the room,eh?
there is also the case of cinematic license!

I agree. You cant film anything without making some enemies. And that is just how it is in the film world. Its a win-lose situation. Either make the movie follow the film exactly, and lose some interested newbies (at the same time even boring some), or add and cut some of the books to fit the film, and bring a flood of people to Tolkien's world (like the movies did to me.) I understand where everyone dissatisfied with the movies is coming from. But nothing is always perfect.

[William Cloud Hicklin]

hey guys,
give pj a break!!
the image of of denethor falling of the 7th level is one of the most iconic images of the movie!
it would not have looked good if he just fell dead in the room,eh?
there is also the case of cinematic license!

Oh, come on! The palantir clasped between his hands, withering in flame? The collapse of the House of Stewards dome in a rush of flame? What wonderful, horrific visual drama!