The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum


Visit The *EVEN NEWER* Barrow-Downs Photo Page

Go Back   The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum > Middle-Earth Discussions > The Books
User Name
Password
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Today's Posts


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 03-30-2007, 10:17 AM   #1
Raynor
Eagle of the Star
 
Raynor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Sarmisegethuza
Posts: 1,058
Raynor has just left Hobbiton.
Quote:
Well, Tolkien pretty much left left the door wide open when it comes to "all-powerful beings"
Hm, can you be more specific? With referrences maybe .
__________________
"May the wicked become good. May the good obtain peace. May the peaceful be freed from bonds. May the freed set others free."
Raynor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-30-2007, 10:23 AM   #2
Lord Halsar
Haunting Spirit
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: 'Round the corner, down the well, passed the Balrog, straight to HELL!
Posts: 77
Lord Halsar has just left Hobbiton.
Silmaril

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raynor
Hm, can you be more specific? With referrences maybe .
You're missing the point. if there was another "all-powerful" being about, then i doubt that Eru would have any desire to let people know of that being's existance.
and who knows, maybe there was another world like ME, only with a continuous war between darkness and light, a war that may have influenced something on middle earth.
__________________
My time is at an end, for I have walked from Valinor to the Far-east where men have not gone for millennia. Demons have fallen before me. And now... I must rest...
Lord Halsar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-30-2007, 10:36 AM   #3
Raynor
Eagle of the Star
 
Raynor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Sarmisegethuza
Posts: 1,058
Raynor has just left Hobbiton.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Halsar
if there was another "all-powerful" being about, then i doubt that Eru would have any desire to let people know of that being's existance.
and who knows, maybe there was another world like ME, only with a continuous war between darkness and light, a war that may have influenced something on middle earth.
I guess I don't have anything to argue against a case which lacks any referrence to Eru not being the almighty (as he is repeatedly called). I was genuinely interested if you knew otherwise.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hhaim
I'm joking
I'll take your word for it .
__________________
"May the wicked become good. May the good obtain peace. May the peaceful be freed from bonds. May the freed set others free."
Raynor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-30-2007, 10:25 AM   #4
Elmo
Pittodrie Poltergeist
 
Elmo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: trying to find that warm and winding lane again
Posts: 633
Elmo has just left Hobbiton.
Everyone knows He Who Arises in Might is the mightiest being in and out of Ea, and will come again and smite Eru and the Valar. Turning Arda into his own fiefdom for all eternity. And we will build temples to praise the Lord of All, Giver of Freedom. What a great day that will be, when we bow down and worship the Great Lord of the Dark, deliverer of us from the evil of Eru!


























(Stop spluttering Ray, I'm joking )
__________________
As Beren looked into her eyes within the shadows of her hair,
The trembling starlight of the skies he saw there mirrored shimmering.
Elmo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-30-2007, 10:30 AM   #5
Lord Halsar
Haunting Spirit
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: 'Round the corner, down the well, passed the Balrog, straight to HELL!
Posts: 77
Lord Halsar has just left Hobbiton.
Silmaril

Is this, "miss the intended topic" day or something? how many of you are actually going to consider what i have said?
__________________
My time is at an end, for I have walked from Valinor to the Far-east where men have not gone for millennia. Demons have fallen before me. And now... I must rest...
Lord Halsar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-30-2007, 10:34 AM   #6
Elmo
Pittodrie Poltergeist
 
Elmo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: trying to find that warm and winding lane again
Posts: 633
Elmo has just left Hobbiton.
But then you could say anything could be in Middle Earth because Tolkien doesn't mention it! He states Eru is the most powerful thing there is.
__________________
As Beren looked into her eyes within the shadows of her hair,
The trembling starlight of the skies he saw there mirrored shimmering.
Elmo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-30-2007, 10:37 AM   #7
Lord Halsar
Haunting Spirit
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: 'Round the corner, down the well, passed the Balrog, straight to HELL!
Posts: 77
Lord Halsar has just left Hobbiton.
Silmaril

the most powerful being... known. what of others that are beyond the knowledge of the elves. or so powerful and dark that the elves chose to forget them long ago.
__________________
My time is at an end, for I have walked from Valinor to the Far-east where men have not gone for millennia. Demons have fallen before me. And now... I must rest...
Lord Halsar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-30-2007, 10:43 AM   #8
Aiwendil
Late Istar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,224
Aiwendil is a guest at the Prancing Pony.Aiwendil is a guest at the Prancing Pony.
And what if the Silmarillion is actually set in the Star Trek universe and it's all a big holodeck simulation? Then at the end of Time Iluvatar utters: "Computer, end program" and Arda disappears?

I don't mean to mock your suggestion, Halsar, but the point is that if one's argument is lack of evidence one can argue anything.
Aiwendil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-30-2007, 10:43 AM   #9
Child of the 7th Age
Spirit of the Lonely Star
 
Child of the 7th Age's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 5,133
Child of the 7th Age is a guest of Tom Bombadil.
Lord Halsar -

This is an intriguing concept to play with in a fantasy world of your own. However, given what we know about Tolkien's middle-earth, I do not see how such a creature could exist in the Legendarium. Everything we know about Tolkien's world would contradict the exist of a being who is "mightier" than Eru and entirely secret.

In my view, this is not a possibility.

With all the emphasis on the readers' right to interpret and the de-emphasis of canon, I still can't help feeling that some things are just "wrong"....at least if what the author says has any importance.
__________________
Multitasking women are never too busy to vote.
Child of the 7th Age is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-30-2007, 10:48 AM   #10
Lord Halsar
Haunting Spirit
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: 'Round the corner, down the well, passed the Balrog, straight to HELL!
Posts: 77
Lord Halsar has just left Hobbiton.
Silmaril

yes, but what do we truly know of Eru Illuvatar anyway? since arda was formed, he mostly just sat idly by and watched the events turn and wars wage. whos to say that another being would not wage war against him.
__________________
My time is at an end, for I have walked from Valinor to the Far-east where men have not gone for millennia. Demons have fallen before me. And now... I must rest...
Lord Halsar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-30-2007, 10:46 AM   #11
Thenamir
Spectre of Capitalism
 
Thenamir's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Battling evil bureaucrats at Zeta Aquilae
Posts: 987
Thenamir has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Thenamir has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Thenamir has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Thenamir has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Thenamir has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Thenamir has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Thenamir has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Thenamir has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Thenamir has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Thenamir has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Thenamir has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!
Lord Halsar, if you have no Tolkien-related reason for thinking as you do, then of course we cannot stop you. However, if you are going to bring this topic to a Tolkien forum such as the Barrow Downs, you should have some support for your position more substantial than "what if". Show us where Tolkien might have said or implied what you are supposing, or leave it alone.
__________________
The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane.
~~ Marcus Aurelius
Thenamir is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:22 AM.



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.