Morgoth's Return

[Raynor]

Well, Tolkien pretty much left left the door wide open when it comes to "all-powerful beings"

Hm, can you be more specific? With referrences maybe .

[Lord Halsar]

Originally Posted by Raynor

Hm, can you be more specific? With referrences maybe .

You're missing the point. if there was another "all-powerful" being about, then i doubt that Eru would have any desire to let people know of that being's existance.
and who knows, maybe there was another world like ME, only with a continuous war between darkness and light, a war that may have influenced something on middle earth.

[Raynor]

Originally Posted by Lord Halsar

if there was another "all-powerful" being about, then i doubt that Eru would have any desire to let people know of that being's existance.
and who knows, maybe there was another world like ME, only with a continuous war between darkness and light, a war that may have influenced something on middle earth.

I guess I don't have anything to argue against a case which lacks any referrence to Eru not being the almighty (as he is repeatedly called). I was genuinely interested if you knew otherwise.

Originally Posted by hhaim

I'm joking

I'll take your word for it .

[Elmo]

Everyone knows He Who Arises in Might is the mightiest being in and out of Ea, and will come again and smite Eru and the Valar. Turning Arda into his own fiefdom for all eternity. And we will build temples to praise the Lord of All, Giver of Freedom. What a great day that will be, when we bow down and worship the Great Lord of the Dark, deliverer of us from the evil of Eru!


























(Stop spluttering Ray, I'm joking )

[Lord Halsar]

Is this, "miss the intended topic" day or something? how many of you are actually going to consider what i have said?

[Elmo]

But then you could say anything could be in Middle Earth because Tolkien doesn't mention it! He states Eru is the most powerful thing there is.

[Lord Halsar]

the most powerful being... known. what of others that are beyond the knowledge of the elves. or so powerful and dark that the elves chose to forget them long ago.

[Aiwendil]

And what if the Silmarillion is actually set in the Star Trek universe and it's all a big holodeck simulation? Then at the end of Time Iluvatar utters: "Computer, end program" and Arda disappears?

I don't mean to mock your suggestion, Halsar, but the point is that if one's argument is lack of evidence one can argue anything.

[Child of the 7th Age]

Lord Halsar -

This is an intriguing concept to play with in a fantasy world of your own. However, given what we know about Tolkien's middle-earth, I do not see how such a creature could exist in the Legendarium. Everything we know about Tolkien's world would contradict the exist of a being who is "mightier" than Eru and entirely secret.

In my view, this is not a possibility.

With all the emphasis on the readers' right to interpret and the de-emphasis of canon, I still can't help feeling that some things are just "wrong"....at least if what the author says has any importance.

[Lord Halsar]

yes, but what do we truly know of Eru Illuvatar anyway? since arda was formed, he mostly just sat idly by and watched the events turn and wars wage. whos to say that another being would not wage war against him.

[Thenamir]

Lord Halsar, if you have no Tolkien-related reason for thinking as you do, then of course we cannot stop you. However, if you are going to bring this topic to a Tolkien forum such as the Barrow Downs, you should have some support for your position more substantial than "what if". Show us where Tolkien might have said or implied what you are supposing, or leave it alone.