Morgoth's Return - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Lord Halsar · 03-30-2007, 10:30 AM

Is this, "miss the intended topic" day or something?

how many of you are actually going to consider what i have said?

Elmo · 03-30-2007, 10:34 AM

But then you could say anything could be in Middle Earth because Tolkien doesn't mention it! He states Eru is the most powerful thing there is.

Lord Halsar · 03-30-2007, 10:37 AM

the most powerful being... known. what of others that are beyond the knowledge of the elves. or so powerful and dark that the elves chose to forget them long ago.

Aiwendil · 03-30-2007, 10:43 AM

And what if the Silmarillion is actually set in the Star Trek universe and it's all a big holodeck simulation? Then at the end of Time Iluvatar utters: "Computer, end program" and Arda disappears?

I don't mean to mock your suggestion, Halsar, but the point is that if one's argument is lack of evidence one can argue anything.

Child of the 7th Age · 03-30-2007, 10:43 AM

Lord Halsar -

This is an intriguing concept to play with in a fantasy world of your own. However, given what we know about Tolkien's middle-earth, I do not see how such a creature could exist in the Legendarium. Everything we know about Tolkien's world would contradict the exist of a being who is "mightier" than Eru and entirely secret.

In my view, this is not a possibility.

With all the emphasis on the readers' right to interpret and the de-emphasis of canon, I still can't help feeling that some things are just "wrong"....at least if what the author says has any importance.

Lord Halsar · 03-30-2007, 10:48 AM

yes, but what do we truly know of Eru Illuvatar anyway? since arda was formed, he mostly just sat idly by and watched the events turn and wars wage. whos to say that another being would not wage war against him.

Lord Halsar · 03-30-2007, 10:54 AM

i am merely thinking out loud. i have no intention of harming Tolkiens reputation or his idea's. that would be something that would be utterly against my nature.
so consider my point of veiw before you cast judgement upon my answers.

***Thenamir*** · 03-30-2007, 10:54 AM

Last chance LH -- tell us where Tolkien ever said or implied this, or I will close this thread forthwith.

Lord Halsar · 03-30-2007, 10:57 AM

as i said before. i am merely thinking out loud. no reason to take such actions as such. if my comments have angered you in some way then i apologize. but as you said, you cannot stop me from considering such notions.
i meen no disrespect.

***Thenamir*** · 03-30-2007, 10:46 AM

Lord Halsar, if you have no Tolkien-related reason for thinking as you do, then of course we cannot stop you. However, if you are going to bring this topic to a Tolkien forum such as the Barrow Downs, you should have some support for your position more substantial than "what if". Show us where Tolkien might have said or implied what you are supposing, or leave it alone.

03-30-2007, 10:30 AM	#1
Lord Halsar Haunting Spirit Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: 'Round the corner, down the well, passed the Balrog, straight to HELL! Posts: 77	Is this, "miss the intended topic" day or something? how many of you are actually going to consider what i have said? __________________ My time is at an end, for I have walked from Valinor to the Far-east where men have not gone for millennia. Demons have fallen before me. And now... I must rest...

03-30-2007, 10:34 AM	#2
Elmo Pittodrie Poltergeist Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: trying to find that warm and winding lane again Posts: 633	But then you could say anything could be in Middle Earth because Tolkien doesn't mention it! He states Eru is the most powerful thing there is. __________________ As Beren looked into her eyes within the shadows of her hair, The trembling starlight of the skies he saw there mirrored shimmering.

03-30-2007, 10:37 AM	#3
Lord Halsar Haunting Spirit Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: 'Round the corner, down the well, passed the Balrog, straight to HELL! Posts: 77	the most powerful being... known. what of others that are beyond the knowledge of the elves. or so powerful and dark that the elves chose to forget them long ago. __________________ My time is at an end, for I have walked from Valinor to the Far-east where men have not gone for millennia. Demons have fallen before me. And now... I must rest...

03-30-2007, 10:43 AM	#5
Child of the 7th Age Spirit of the Lonely Star Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 5,133	Lord Halsar - This is an intriguing concept to play with in a fantasy world of your own. However, given what we know about Tolkien's middle-earth, I do not see how such a creature could exist in the Legendarium. Everything we know about Tolkien's world would contradict the exist of a being who is "mightier" than Eru and entirely secret. In my view, this is not a possibility. With all the emphasis on the readers' right to interpret and the de-emphasis of canon, I still can't help feeling that some things are just "wrong"....at least if what the author says has any importance. __________________ Multitasking women are never too busy to vote.

03-30-2007, 10:48 AM	#6
Lord Halsar Haunting Spirit Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: 'Round the corner, down the well, passed the Balrog, straight to HELL! Posts: 77	yes, but what do we truly know of Eru Illuvatar anyway? since arda was formed, he mostly just sat idly by and watched the events turn and wars wage. whos to say that another being would not wage war against him. __________________ My time is at an end, for I have walked from Valinor to the Far-east where men have not gone for millennia. Demons have fallen before me. And now... I must rest...

03-30-2007, 10:43 AM	#4
Aiwendil Late Istar Join Date: Mar 2001 Posts: 2,224	And what if the Silmarillion is actually set in the Star Trek universe and it's all a big holodeck simulation? Then at the end of Time Iluvatar utters: "Computer, end program" and Arda disappears? I don't mean to mock your suggestion, Halsar, but the point is that if one's argument is lack of evidence one can argue anything.

03-30-2007, 10:54 AM	#7
Lord Halsar Haunting Spirit Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: 'Round the corner, down the well, passed the Balrog, straight to HELL! Posts: 77	i am merely thinking out loud. i have no intention of harming Tolkiens reputation or his idea's. that would be something that would be utterly against my nature. so consider my point of veiw before you cast judgement upon my answers. __________________ My time is at an end, for I have walked from Valinor to the Far-east where men have not gone for millennia. Demons have fallen before me. And now... I must rest...

03-30-2007, 10:54 AM	#8
*Thenamir* Spectre of Capitalism Join Date: May 2001 Location: Battling evil bureaucrats at Zeta Aquilae Posts: 987	Last chance LH -- tell us where Tolkien ever said or implied this, or I will close this thread forthwith. __________________ The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane. ~~ Marcus Aurelius

03-30-2007, 10:57 AM	#9
Lord Halsar Haunting Spirit Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: 'Round the corner, down the well, passed the Balrog, straight to HELL! Posts: 77	as i said before. i am merely thinking out loud. no reason to take such actions as such. if my comments have angered you in some way then i apologize. but as you said, you cannot stop me from considering such notions. i meen no disrespect. __________________ My time is at an end, for I have walked from Valinor to the Far-east where men have not gone for millennia. Demons have fallen before me. And now... I must rest...

03-30-2007, 10:46 AM	#10
*Thenamir* Spectre of Capitalism Join Date: May 2001 Location: Battling evil bureaucrats at Zeta Aquilae Posts: 987	Lord Halsar, if you have no Tolkien-related reason for thinking as you do, then of course we cannot stop you. However, if you are going to bring this topic to a Tolkien forum such as the Barrow Downs, you should have some support for your position more substantial than "what if". Show us where Tolkien might have said or implied what you are supposing, or leave it alone. __________________ The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane. ~~ Marcus Aurelius