A word by any other name ...

[Bêthberry]

In addition to all these variations of pronunciation mentioned by Legate and alatar, Squatter has mentioned Moria and Morīah, and Gollum and Golem, and davem brings Tele***** into the question. Then there are the Púkel-men, a name which Thenamir has not exactly confused, but rather parodied in REB. In fact, any quick perusal of REB will suggest how fraight is Tolkien's language with these other associations.

Given what seems to be an ever-increasing list of words which suggest associations which apparently are irrelevant, I suppose it can be explained, in keeping with Tolkien's own insistance that these are not intentional, as a clear sign that his sub-creation is independent of the Primary World. It can be said, then, that Middle-earth's language shows Middle-earth to be a parallel or alternate universe, with strikingly different derivations and etymologies of even words which seem most familiar. This would work against the idea that The Silm, TH, and LotR are simply set in an earlier age of our own world.

[Aiwendil]

Bethberry wrote:

This would work against the idea that The Silm, TH, and LotR are simply set in an earlier age of our own world.

Not necessarily. If Tolkien's Legendarium is purportedly our own world, it is our own world some 6,000 years ago (by his estimate in Letter 211). This would put the fall of Barad-dur somewhere around 4000 B.C.E., which is just about at the furthest extreme of our knowledge of European language. Quenya, Sindarin, Westron, and so forth as presented in LotR would have been (very roughly) contemporary with proto-Indo-European. So one can in fact self-consistently pretend that these languages existed in our distant past but are, largely or entirely, unrelated etymologically to any modern language.

[Bêthberry]

Originally Posted by Aiwendil

So one can in fact self-consistently pretend that these languages existed in our distant past but are, largely or entirely, unrelated etymologically to any modern language.

This would be one of the gaps then in the Legendarium. We could thus posit some sort of Babel myth in the Legendarium to explain why the languages are unrelated, although clearly this would impact on the Translator Conceit discussed in an earlier thread. That might involve a Rosetta Stone story.

The fan fiction or RPG possibilities expand.

[Child of the 7th Age]

We could thus posit some sort of Babel myth in the Legendarium to explain why the languages are unrelated, although clearly this would impact on the Translator Conceit discussed in an earlier thread. That might involve a Rosetta Stone story.

Bethberry - Regarding Babel....you are closer to the truth than you know. On at least one occasion, Tolkien expressed a fondness for the debacle of Babel and the resulting dispersal of tongues. In Angles and Britons, the O'Donnel Lectures (published in 1963), while discussing English and Welsh, Tolkien praised the diversity of language with this comment: O felix peccatum Babel (Oh, lucky sin of Babel). I think he would have been delighted to see the conundrum we've got here!

You guys are impressive. And I thought I was the only one. But now that I'm in your company, I want to take a different strategy.
The mythology of the Silmarillion and of the War of the Ring is bigger than Tolkien.
Pray for the Spirit of Truth to reveal these Questions to you. I cannot support many of my opinions and I can't deny some of my opinions are contrary to the man himself. Does this disqualify me? I dare say, no. I read in this thread; and I became interested in ent-o-mology after reading Tolkiens bio, that Tolkien wrote in some letter that his world was around four thousand B.C. [I hate that B.C.E. cr##, leave it the way it is/was] but Tolkiens world is many millennium. So we must assume that the 4000 B.C. sighted was, what? end of third age, right? Come on people. Of certainty the Tolkien languages are related, to the european langauges, even down to the dialetic regional variations of some ten square miles of soil, geographically and temporally isolated, whether or not there exist phonetic simularity. I believe; as strongly as any martyred protestant; that Tolkiens revelation was historical. Far beyond ancient. An spiritual echo, of something . . . distant and yet so present, all around me, and yet . . . unreachable.
I am not jewish.
I am not a chosen son of God
I am a European American.
This is my religion.