Werewolf XXXI: The Unknown Enemies - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

xyzzy · 04-13-2007, 04:41 PM

Hmm, this is troubling. A plain innocent can't exactly do anything to prove his non-guilt...

I'd like to point out with the Meta issue, I only post on this thread, so looking at my posts to see when I was on won't really provide anything.

Since I'm pretty much stuck in a corner, I have to come up with some sort of defense, and it's a very strange one:

Any Wolf can claim to be the Seer, and he can hold out until the end if he sacrifices one of his teammates for the vote. Macalaure has not been an attempted kill by the Wolves except perhaps until last night, even though he's an obvious target if he's the Seer. The Wolves would have tried him the very night it was found he was the Seer if they wanted him dead, but they didn't!

++Macalaure

Rikae · 04-13-2007, 04:44 PM

Nogrod was the attempted kill last night, he's the one I protected.

xyzzy · 04-13-2007, 04:45 PM

...Which only goes to prove what I said more. That would mean the Wolves NEVER targeted Mac!

Rikae · 04-13-2007, 04:46 PM

Of course you didn't. You 'knew' I would be protecting him.

Nogrod · 04-13-2007, 04:52 PM

I would love to believe that we have won and the game is over.

But somehow I can't claim the victory yet. Something is too smooth and part of the puzzle look unclear. I really do hope I can trust you Mac and Rikae. I really do. But having seen quite elaborate schemes being played out, forgive me to reserve my judgement for a moment still and think about it.

If you're honest then three cheers for you, but only if you are...

I try to make sense of this to myself, sorry about that.

EDIT: X'd with a few last posts

Nogrod · 04-13-2007, 04:53 PM

Even more food for thought, I can see... Now I just need to sit down and think a moment. I'll be back soon...

Rikae · 04-13-2007, 04:59 PM

Xyzzy, if Mac's not the seer, who is? You? Sixth?

Why didn't the real seer step forward and challange him?
Why would a wolf sacrifice his only pack-mate without need, reletively early in the game?
Why would he risk being revealed by the real seer?
So many questions....

Nogrod · 04-13-2007, 05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rikae

Xyzzy, if Mac's not the seer, who is? You? Sixth?

The thing I'm a bit concerned is not that Mac is the Seer, even though if The Sixth is the Seer, the situation changes drastically. As I think we should take the RL explanations for their face-value (other than that would be bad sportmanship from everyone included) we still have not heard from The Sixth as to what he thinks about Mac's revelation.

And the same goes to Rikae's rangerdom. We normal villagers do not know the roles that exist in this game. So do we have a seer or a ranger in the first place?

But the thing I'm most concerned about is the possibility of Mac (probably the Seer) and Rikae (possibilty of her being the Wolf exists) being a pair of lovers. That would make perfect sense as I look down their actions. Not to mention them both being nicely around to hammer the vote of toDay down as the first posts of toDay. It's so smooth and clear...

Menel had to bring down his aspirations to make some real surprises as there were not enough players to join the game, but could he have replaced the grander surprises with a possibility that the Seer is a lover as well?

After all these questions I will start waffling again and say that I think the highest probabilty is for Mac and Rikae to be true, but I will look at a few facets of the claims they've made before I will vote for anyone. And I also think you others who have not voted will abstain from voting before we have discussed a bit.

---------

The most importantly, The Sixth, come forwards! Do you have a special role or not? Your answer is of the utmost importance now!

Nogrod · 04-13-2007, 06:14 PM

The thing that got me alarmed in the first place toDay was that both Mac and Rikae ran on Xyzzy at the begining of the Day by voting him indeed. Who could be an easier lynch than him? So being lovers you would have chosen the perfect sacrifice as we all would be relieved by the "knowledge" that the non-pariticipant Xyzzy indeed is the villain. How good and comfortable we would feel indeed! And the most myself, as I would have been saved by Rikae - meaning that Xyzzy-wolf would have been following the game enough to pick me as the subject of the kill.

I don't want to under-estimate anyone's capabilities or engagement as such, but choosing me last Night from all the players would require someone who really follows what happens... and this doesn't fit with the general profile I get from Xyzzy (you saw the games he showed as an example of the games he normally plays - quite far from this).

Although his willing to actually take part and to defend himself so eagerly as soon as he was openly suspected (well, claimed the wolf indeed) would speak really bad of him as well.

I admit, that if Mac and Rikae are true it's just logical. If Mac is the Seer he should have chosen from between Xyzzy and The Sixth and I can also see why he chose Xyzzy for his dream. But the problem is, they both are capable ewnough to be logical baddies as well. So the logic will probably not help us much here.

What troubles me more is Rikae. Yes, she may indeed be the ranger and thence I must thank her for the possibility of being here toDay in the first place. *bows* If it really is that way I duly appreciate it.

But somehow I still can't get the itch away from me that this is too simple and clean - that there is a scheme behind all this... She has made so many suspicious moves as well... and leaving me alive the "Last Day" would be just beautiful. Valier once made this trick in the end of the game... and I can't forget it.

Okay. Most of these suspicions are mainly hunches. Maybe I've seen too many marvellous tricks by the baddies to still cling into the possibility... but having possibly only innocent mates like Xyzzy and The Sixth to cling into it kind of ladens the burden on one's shoulder... And that would be just so darn unfair!

I hope I can say something more definitive later on as I wake up again (RL).

And to be earnest in the end of my day (RL) I must say that Xyzzy's defence was not the most convincing one I've seen...

EDIT: X'd with Rikae - don't know whether to read your last post as confirming my doubts or releasing you of them... Maybe you're too forward-going with your innocence (your rangership)? In the end, Mac has not covered your status...

Nogrod · 04-13-2007, 06:44 PM

My last word s before I go to sleep.

It all comes down to the Sixth.

-----
Please come around The Sixth!
-----

If he contests any of the claims being thrown around we should be really suspicious of the revealments so far and lynch either Rikae, Mac or The Sixth himself - considering on who do we believe. But if he tells us he's a normal villager I'm more than ready to go with Mac and Rikae - and congratulate them of a good game where they granted our victory so nicely.

All this waffling and wavering is due to us not knowing the roles in the end. Had we the definitive information about the roles this would be so much easier. But maybe this is the reason why this game seems so interesting indeed? So many open possibilities that you can't be sure even at this late stage of the game?

-----
Please come around The Sixth!
-----

PS. Rikae: It's not the question of timetables as such, it's a question of the willingness or daring to take part in the discussion. You have laid very low in this game and I can see the reason behind it as if you're the ranger you need to lay low from the gaze of the wolves. But I can see your changed activity as a wolf lying under the radar too and then coming forwards when there is difference to be made in a village where at least two of the remaining innocents just aren't actually playing the game in the first place.

Sorry to be this suspicious, but you know this is werewolf...

Rikae · 04-13-2007, 06:46 PM

I voted for Xyzzy because I trusted Mac's seerishness, plain and simple.
Look, if Mac was the wolf, why wouldn't he have killed someone last night? It would be five to one. Would he miss the chance to kill, say, Mith? HE would have known Nogrod would be protected.
If I was the wolf, why wouldn't I have killed someone - probably Nogrod?
The real wolf tried to kill the very same person I said he should. A trick? It would be a wasted night, then, by a drastically outnumbered wolf.

EDIT: X'd with Nogrod

xyzzy · 04-13-2007, 05:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rikae

Xyzzy, if Mac's not the seer, who is? You? Sixth?

Why didn't the real seer step forward and challange him?
Why would a wolf sacrifice his only pack-mate without need, reletively early in the game?
Why would he risk being revealed by the real seer?
So many questions....

I don't know; I'm a plain innocent.
Perhaps there is no seer?
There could be 4 wolves, if the innocents have more powerful folks. Or, if there's 3, being credited with a wolf's death is an excellent alibi.
Hmm, good question. Best guess is, there isn't a seer.

I've heard of games where the Wolves are aware that there is no seer, perhaps this is one of them?

Rikae · 04-13-2007, 05:58 PM

"Not to mention them both being nicely around to hammer the vote of toDay down as the first posts of toDay. It's so smooth and clear..."

Why wouldn't I be around? The day starts at 6 pm my time, and obviously I would want to check and see if my little scheme paid off. As it did, and I certainly hope that you don't spoil it now! *pouts*
After all, I saved your life, buddy! You owe me one.
(j/k)
It would actually be kind of cool if you lynched me now and threw away the victory. Trust me, I would never let you forget it!

Meneltarmacil · 04-14-2007, 11:14 AM

Well, since all the votes seem to be in, I really see no need to delay any longer.

The villagers gathered once again, hauling xyzzy with them.

"Seriously, I'm innocent!" the merchant shouted. "Are you sure you don't want to buy some exotic spices?"

"Be quiet!" Macalaure answered.

"Alright! I've had enough of you villagers! Prepare to die!" said xyzzy. He grew larger and sprouted dark fur. He let out a howl at the rising moon, bared his fangs, and rushed at the villagers, who started running in terror.

Rikae, however, stood her ground. The Ranger drew her sword and leaped upon the charging beast. Xyzzy tried to throw her off, but she held on tightly as she plunged the sword into the wolf, who died shortly thereafter.

The village was safe. All the wolves were finally gone.

Alive:
Macalaure (Seer)
Mithalwen (Ordinary Villager)
Nogrod (Ordinary Villager)
Rikae (Ranger)
The Sixth Wizard (Ordinary Villager)

Dead:
Meneltarmacil (Moderator): Devoured by Wolves on Night 1
Glirdan (Werewolf): Stoned to death by Villagers on Day 1
the guy who be short (Cobbler): Became the guy who be hung by Villagers on Day 2
Brinniel (Ordinary Villager): Crushed under anvil by Wolves on Night 3
Gil-Galad (Ordinary Villager): Didn't need no stinkin' lynching, but got one from Villagers on Day 3
Thinlómien (Werewolf): Slain by Hunter on Night 4
Roa_Aoife (Hunter): Wounded and devoured by Wolves on Night 4
Legate of Amon Lanc (Ordinary Villager): Pitchforked by villagers on Day 4
xyzzy (Werewolf): Almost lynched by Villagers but then slain by Ranger on Day 5

Villagers win!

Post-game discussion may now begin.

xyzzy · 04-14-2007, 11:40 AM

Congrats, innocents.

How long does it take for new games to start around here? I swear, I won't be beaten so easily next time.

04-13-2007, 04:52 PM	#5
Nogrod Flame of the Ainulindalë Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Wearing rat's coat, crowskin, crossed staves in a field behaving as the wind behaves Posts: 9,308	I would love to believe that we have won and the game is over. But somehow I can't claim the victory yet. Something is too smooth and part of the puzzle look unclear. I really do hope I can trust you Mac and Rikae. I really do. But having seen quite elaborate schemes being played out, forgive me to reserve my judgement for a moment still and think about it. If you're honest then three cheers for you, but only if you are... I try to make sense of this to myself, sorry about that. EDIT: X'd with a few last posts __________________ Upon the hearth the fire is red Beneath the roof there is a bed; But not yet weary are our feet...

04-13-2007, 04:53 PM	#6
Nogrod Flame of the Ainulindalë Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Wearing rat's coat, crowskin, crossed staves in a field behaving as the wind behaves Posts: 9,308	Even more food for thought, I can see... Now I just need to sit down and think a moment. I'll be back soon... __________________ Upon the hearth the fire is red Beneath the roof there is a bed; But not yet weary are our feet...

04-13-2007, 06:14 PM	#9
Nogrod Flame of the Ainulindalë Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Wearing rat's coat, crowskin, crossed staves in a field behaving as the wind behaves Posts: 9,308	The thing that got me alarmed in the first place toDay was that both Mac and Rikae ran on Xyzzy at the begining of the Day by voting him indeed. Who could be an easier lynch than him? So being lovers you would have chosen the perfect sacrifice as we all would be relieved by the "knowledge" that the non-pariticipant Xyzzy indeed is the villain. How good and comfortable we would feel indeed! And the most myself, as I would have been saved by Rikae - meaning that Xyzzy-wolf would have been following the game enough to pick me as the subject of the kill. I don't want to under-estimate anyone's capabilities or engagement as such, but choosing me last Night from all the players would require someone who really follows what happens... and this doesn't fit with the general profile I get from Xyzzy (you saw the games he showed as an example of the games he normally plays - quite far from this). Although his willing to actually take part and to defend himself so eagerly as soon as he was openly suspected (well, claimed the wolf indeed) would speak really bad of him as well. I admit, that if Mac and Rikae are true it's just logical. If Mac is the Seer he should have chosen from between Xyzzy and The Sixth and I can also see why he chose Xyzzy for his dream. But the problem is, they both are capable ewnough to be logical baddies as well. So the logic will probably not help us much here. What troubles me more is Rikae. Yes, she may indeed be the ranger and thence I must thank her for the possibility of being here toDay in the first place. bows If it really is that way I duly appreciate it. But somehow I still can't get the itch away from me that this is too simple and clean - that there is a scheme behind all this... She has made so many suspicious moves as well... and leaving me alive the "Last Day" would be just beautiful. Valier once made this trick in the end of the game... and I can't forget it. Okay. Most of these suspicions are mainly hunches. Maybe I've seen too many marvellous tricks by the baddies to still cling into the possibility... but having possibly only innocent mates like Xyzzy and The Sixth to cling into it kind of ladens the burden on one's shoulder... And that would be just so darn unfair! I hope I can say something more definitive later on as I wake up again (RL). And to be earnest in the end of my day (RL) I must say that Xyzzy's defence was not the most convincing one I've seen... EDIT: X'd with Rikae - don't know whether to read your last post as confirming my doubts or releasing you of them... Maybe you're too forward-going with your innocence (your rangership)? In the end, Mac has not covered your status... __________________ Upon the hearth the fire is red Beneath the roof there is a bed; But not yet weary are our feet... Last edited by Nogrod; 04-13-2007 at 06:17 PM.

04-13-2007, 06:44 PM	#10
Nogrod Flame of the Ainulindalë Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Wearing rat's coat, crowskin, crossed staves in a field behaving as the wind behaves Posts: 9,308	My last word s before I go to sleep. It all comes down to the Sixth. ----- Please come around The Sixth! ----- If he contests any of the claims being thrown around we should be really suspicious of the revealments so far and lynch either Rikae, Mac or The Sixth himself - considering on who do we believe. But if he tells us he's a normal villager I'm more than ready to go with Mac and Rikae - and congratulate them of a good game where they granted our victory so nicely. All this waffling and wavering is due to us not knowing the roles in the end. Had we the definitive information about the roles this would be so much easier. But maybe this is the reason why this game seems so interesting indeed? So many open possibilities that you can't be sure even at this late stage of the game? ----- Please come around The Sixth! ----- PS. Rikae: It's not the question of timetables as such, it's a question of the willingness or daring to take part in the discussion. You have laid very low in this game and I can see the reason behind it as if you're the ranger you need to lay low from the gaze of the wolves. But I can see your changed activity as a wolf lying under the radar too and then coming forwards when there is difference to be made in a village where at least two of the remaining innocents just aren't actually playing the game in the first place. Sorry to be this suspicious, but you know this is werewolf... __________________ Upon the hearth the fire is red Beneath the roof there is a bed; But not yet weary are our feet...

04-13-2007, 05:58 PM	#13
Rikae Mellifluous Maia Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: A glade open to the stars, deep in Nan Elmoth Posts: 3,489	"Not to mention them both being nicely around to hammer the vote of toDay down as the first posts of toDay. It's so smooth and clear..." Why wouldn't I be around? The day starts at 6 pm my time, and obviously I would want to check and see if my little scheme paid off. As it did, and I certainly hope that you don't spoil it now! pouts After all, I saved your life, buddy! You owe me one. (j/k) It would actually be kind of cool if you lynched me now and threw away the victory. Trust me, I would never let you forget it! Last edited by Rikae; 04-13-2007 at 06:07 PM.

04-13-2007, 04:41 PM	#1
xyzzy Haunting Spirit Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Ozark, MO Posts: 53	Hmm, this is troubling. A plain innocent can't exactly do anything to prove his non-guilt... I'd like to point out with the Meta issue, I only post on this thread, so looking at my posts to see when I was on won't really provide anything. Since I'm pretty much stuck in a corner, I have to come up with some sort of defense, and it's a very strange one: Any Wolf can claim to be the Seer, and he can hold out until the end if he sacrifices one of his teammates for the vote. Macalaure has not been an attempted kill by the Wolves except perhaps until last night, even though he's an obvious target if he's the Seer. The Wolves would have tried him the very night it was found he was the Seer if they wanted him dead, but they didn't! ++Macalaure

04-13-2007, 04:44 PM	#2
Rikae Mellifluous Maia Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: A glade open to the stars, deep in Nan Elmoth Posts: 3,489	Nogrod was the attempted kill last night, he's the one I protected.

04-13-2007, 04:45 PM	#3
xyzzy Haunting Spirit Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Ozark, MO Posts: 53	...Which only goes to prove what I said more. That would mean the Wolves NEVER targeted Mac!

04-13-2007, 04:46 PM	#4
Rikae Mellifluous Maia Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: A glade open to the stars, deep in Nan Elmoth Posts: 3,489	Of course you didn't. You 'knew' I would be protecting him.

04-13-2007, 04:59 PM	#7
Rikae Mellifluous Maia Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: A glade open to the stars, deep in Nan Elmoth Posts: 3,489	Xyzzy, if Mac's not the seer, who is? You? Sixth? Why didn't the real seer step forward and challange him? Why would a wolf sacrifice his only pack-mate without need, reletively early in the game? Why would he risk being revealed by the real seer? So many questions....

04-13-2007, 06:46 PM	#11
Rikae Mellifluous Maia Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: A glade open to the stars, deep in Nan Elmoth Posts: 3,489	I voted for Xyzzy because I trusted Mac's seerishness, plain and simple. Look, if Mac was the wolf, why wouldn't he have killed someone last night? It would be five to one. Would he miss the chance to kill, say, Mith? HE would have known Nogrod would be protected. If I was the wolf, why wouldn't I have killed someone - probably Nogrod? The real wolf tried to kill the very same person I said he should. A trick? It would be a wasted night, then, by a drastically outnumbered wolf. EDIT: X'd with Nogrod

04-14-2007, 11:14 AM	#14
Meneltarmacil Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: The bottom of the ocean, discussing philosophy with a giant squid Posts: 2,254	Well, since all the votes seem to be in, I really see no need to delay any longer. The villagers gathered once again, hauling xyzzy with them. "Seriously, I'm innocent!" the merchant shouted. "Are you sure you don't want to buy some exotic spices?" "Be quiet!" Macalaure answered. "Alright! I've had enough of you villagers! Prepare to die!" said xyzzy. He grew larger and sprouted dark fur. He let out a howl at the rising moon, bared his fangs, and rushed at the villagers, who started running in terror. Rikae, however, stood her ground. The Ranger drew her sword and leaped upon the charging beast. Xyzzy tried to throw her off, but she held on tightly as she plunged the sword into the wolf, who died shortly thereafter. The village was safe. All the wolves were finally gone. Alive: Macalaure (Seer) Mithalwen (Ordinary Villager) Nogrod (Ordinary Villager) Rikae (Ranger) The Sixth Wizard (Ordinary Villager) Dead: Meneltarmacil (Moderator): Devoured by Wolves on Night 1 Glirdan (Werewolf): Stoned to death by Villagers on Day 1 the guy who be short (Cobbler): Became the guy who be hung by Villagers on Day 2 Brinniel (Ordinary Villager): Crushed under anvil by Wolves on Night 3 Gil-Galad (Ordinary Villager): Didn't need no stinkin' lynching, but got one from Villagers on Day 3 Thinlómien (Werewolf): Slain by Hunter on Night 4 Roa_Aoife (Hunter): Wounded and devoured by Wolves on Night 4 Legate of Amon Lanc (Ordinary Villager): Pitchforked by villagers on Day 4 xyzzy (Werewolf): Almost lynched by Villagers but then slain by Ranger on Day 5 Villagers win! Post-game discussion may now begin. __________________ I ♣ baby seals.

04-14-2007, 11:40 AM	#15
xyzzy Haunting Spirit Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Ozark, MO Posts: 53	Congrats, innocents. How long does it take for new games to start around here? I swear, I won't be beaten so easily next time.