Silmarillion - Ainulindale

[Rikae]

Forgive me for resurrecting an ancient thread, but I'm just returning to the Silmarillion after20 years, and I have to talk about it!

Specifically, if I may, I'd like to agree with this "blasphemy" and perhaps, go a step farther toward the dark side :

Originally Posted by Mac

How I read it is, that the dissonance, though played with the intention to disturb, still has its source within Eru, and therefore is no dissonance, but only perceived as such.

This was my first thought on reading Eru's words as well. In fact, it seems obvious to me that Tolkien went to great pains not to have Eru call the dissonance evil; in fact, he repeatedly highlights ways in which Melkor's attempted destruction becomes part of the process of creation; of the new themes, the third theme's beauty even comes chiefly from its sadness; the snow; the clouds.
There is something here that transcends good and evil; the idea of the beauty of sadness and the creative power of dissonance. Logically, it fits with the idea of the universe as a work of art - the introduction of conflict and dissonance is important in all the arts, whether the tension between colors or asymmetrical compositions in the visual arts; dissonance or syncopation in music, or conflict in literature; chaos and discord tend to spur richer creations. Now, obviously once the world is created and we're thrust into the work of art itself, these things are depicted as evil - this is part of the perspective of one inside the story, and therefore, necessary - but I see the Ainulindale as "outside" the world/story (hence the different style), and from this perspective 'good' and 'evil' collapse back to a single root.
"And thou, Melkor, shalt see that no theme may be played that hath not its uttermost source in me, nor can any alter the music in my despite."' Absolutely says that Melkor, his discordance, and all that arise from it originates with Eru; which I don't so much see as meaning Eru is partly evil, but that Eru is simply a creator, transcending good and evil; that what we call evil is a creative force, just as what we call good is.
"For he that attempteth this shall prove but mine instrument in the devising of things more wonderful, which he himself hath not imagined."
If this doesn't seem to fit with Tolkien's Catholicism, bear in mind I'm suggesting this is a sort of overarching solution to the "problem of evil" as seen from a place outside of space and time, so to speak, where such dualities as good and evil dissolve; this doesn't mean that the dualities are meaningless within the creation; paradoxically, it's essential to creation that they remain separate within it while being unified outside of it.

OK, all I really wanted to say is this book is good enough for Jehovah! (Stone her!)

[aiea]

If you like you could thank me to resurrect an ancient thread I start with a question and post here a interesting theory about music and creation.
The creation myths has to answer some questions that could be not grasped with normal logic. It are the contradictions that speak to the unconscious mind of the reader that had to find an internal conciliation .
My question:
Manwe:air
Ulmo: water
Aule & c: earth
Melkor: fire ? (this is the question )
But not the eternal fire (that is both with Iluvatar both on Arda) just a part of it.
This is the tale :


The Cosmic Sacrificing Satan
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In the beginning, the Creator was alone, in the ratio 1:1, and having unopposed Will, Being and Consciousness, he deigned to create a universe to enjoy so he moved in a dream away from himself and looked back. This was the Ratio of 2:1, but being of God's own nature, it was perfect and equivalent and he only stared back at himself. This in music is the "octave".

Being perfect has significant problems. Anything that is perfect has no reason to change and no reason to move, so that the Creator was at a standstill. No "time" or "space" existed. Without "time" or "space" the universe collapsed back into the unsullied being of the Creator.

Again and again the Creator tried to create a universe to enjoy but each attempt brought the same results. No time or space and no change or movement, so that his creation kept going "poof" and dissolving back into his perfect nature.

Being lonely, he decided to create companions for himself so he created the Archangels which were also perfect, one on each side of him. To his right was Lucifer, the light-bringer and guardian of energy, and to his left Gabriel, the guardian of matter. These stood in Ratios of 3:2 and 4:3 and were the first Holy Trinity with no faults or flaws.

Still, being perfect in Trinity, the Creator was stymied. There was no "time" in which events could occur nor "space" for them to occur in. So he asked a favor of the Archangels; asking who loved him enough to diminish himself and take on the role of the Satan, which means opposer. This would be a being that would create asymmetry in the universe, making it imperfect, and allowing things to have a wish for movement and change. Something would need to act as a stopgap, not allowing any created thing to achieve perfection. This would enable the creation to rotate and swirl in an everlasting movement of agony and hope.

Lucifer the first born stepped up and declared that he would diminish himself. In music this is the most dissonant interval, in a ratio of 45:32, and is called the Devil's Interval, and is as far away from the 1 as possible. So the Creator let Lucifer be diminished, and asymmetry was born, and with it, "time" and "space". Lucifer became the "Cosmic Prodigal Son", who denies any created thing from reaching perfection, because if any single thing reached perfection, the entire universe would disappear.

In music, Satan created all the dissonance, and the Devil's Interval (1 -- bV -- I) is the ground root of all musical movement by reason of it's extreme dissonance which demands resolution, and makes music as well as all things "move" and "change". In Music this is called the Cycle of Fifths/Fourths and it has 12 stations or "notes" which rotate around in an endless spiral. Just as the Major scale is the static law of music; all scales and chords coming from it, the cycle of Fifths is the involutionary movement, the Divine Fiat of the creator, and movements along the Cycle of Fourths are the hope of all things who have found themselves in the world of multiplicity to return to the bosom of the Creator. But they are not allowed to do so, by the denying force of the opposer.

[Morthoron]

Melkor played jazz. The free-form improvisation and syncopated beats threw off the classicist snobs among the Ainur.