Tolkien and Norse Mythology - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

William Cloud Hicklin · 05-10-2007, 08:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tom bombariffic

I'm sorry, I was slightly wrong, but I still don't think that you're right. What I should have said is that Smeagol comes from the Old English verb 'smeagan' - to think, ponder, or examine. This makes more sense for Gollum than 'to delve, burrow, creep', as after all Smeagol is what he was called before he retreated to the mountains.

The verb you are thinking of is the Old Norse verb 'smjúga', the past tense of which is 'smaug' - "he crept". This is presumably where the dragon's name came from.

"Smial (or smile) 'burrow' is a likely form for a descendant of smygel, and represents well the relationship of Hobbit tran to R[ohirric] trahan. Smeagol and Deagol are equivalents made up in the same way for the names Trahald 'burrowing, worming in', and Nahald 'secret' in the Northern tongues." --Appendix F.II "On Translation."

Remember, even before the Ring, Smeagol "was interested in roots and beginnings," "burrowed under trees," and "tunnelled into green mounds."

Smaug is "the past tense of the primitive Germanic verb Smugan, to squeeze through a hole: a low philological jest." --Letter no. 25

tom bombariffic · 05-10-2007, 05:52 PM

Fair enough I suppose, if Tolkien said that about Smeagol, the linguistic approach has lead me astray. Interesting though, that the name he came up with sounds less like the word he derived it from than another word, which he would certianly have been aware of.

smugan is the Anglo Saxon rendition of the ON smjúga, so we're really arguing the same point on that one.

bombariffic

Iarwain Ben-adar · 05-22-2007, 07:01 PM

I have a thread in a different Tolkien Study Site that gpes nto comparisons with Different Mytholoiges to Tolkiens. I have only done 2 (Norse and Christian), and am working on Greek similariites. Just thouht you might want to know.
Here

If you want to comment on it, feel free to do so in this thread (with the permission of the thread starter, mind you. Thread starter: Please OK that. You don't have to, but please do.)

05-10-2007, 05:52 PM	#2
tom bombariffic Wight Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: In the house of Tom Bombariffic Posts: 196	Fair enough I suppose, if Tolkien said that about Smeagol, the linguistic approach has lead me astray. Interesting though, that the name he came up with sounds less like the word he derived it from than another word, which he would certianly have been aware of. smugan is the Anglo Saxon rendition of the ON smjúga, so we're really arguing the same point on that one. bombariffic __________________ The 'hum' generated by an electric car is not in fact the noise of the engine, but that of the driver's self-righteousness oscillating at a high frequency.

05-22-2007, 07:01 PM	#3
Iarwain Ben-adar Newly Deceased Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 10	I have a thread in a different Tolkien Study Site that gpes nto comparisons with Different Mytholoiges to Tolkiens. I have only done 2 (Norse and Christian), and am working on Greek similariites. Just thouht you might want to know. Here If you want to comment on it, feel free to do so in this thread (with the permission of the thread starter, mind you. Thread starter: Please OK that. You don't have to, but please do.) __________________ "The wise speak only of what they know" -John Ronald Reul Tolkien