WW XXXIII - Other Minds and Hands

[The Saucepan Man]

Originally Posted by Mithalwen

… but the catering facilities are currently noticeable by their absence …

*The serving hatch on the Catering Van slides open with a creak and a jolly, bearded and bespectacled face pops out.*

Someone looking for something to eat? Well, I’ve whipped up a nice ghoulash here, if anyone would care for a bowl. An old family recipe. Put hairs on your chin, it will.

*Saucepan holds up a bottle marked “Saucepan‘s Special Ghoulash Sauce“ and does a double take as he notices that it remains full. Sheepishly, he glance back to the kitchenette and spies with horror an empty, though somewhat greasy, pepsi bottle.*

Ahem, salad anyone?

So, what’s been happening since the ghoulash … er ... ghoulish discovery? Hmm, a bunch of method actors spouting their lines. Crew members going about the business. Sheesh! I’ve heard of the expression “the show must go on”, but this is ridiculous. Surely you don’t expect this production to go ahead in the circumstances? What with the CG Animator brutally murdered and a bunch of Werewolves running amok among us? I mean, it’s not like there’s never been a film of Tolkien’s masterpiece made before. Like, you know, there was that trilogy that, um, won, like, UMPTEEN OSCARS including BEST DIRECTOR, or something like that.

Anyway, to business.

*Saucepan picks up a clipborad on which the word “Director” has been hastily scribbled out and replaced with the words “Day 1 Checklist”*

Now, let me see …

Discussion of roles. Check

Exhortation to all to speak. Check

Discussion about what might be done with the quiet ones. Check.

Statement of dislike of Day 1s. Check.

Any useful discussion directed towards finding the Wolves … Erm, nope.

So far, I am highly impressed by Xyzzy, who obviously has a masterful understanding of how fantasy films should be made. And I think that we should keep Gil-Galad around for a while, as Zombies are always good value. Especially later in the piece, when the hero stumbles across a chainsaw or hover-mower, or some such.

Oh, and Anguirel‘s clearly a Wolf. He‘s talking far too much to be a credible Celeborn. Obviously, he’s got something to hide.

That and it’s traditional for me to attempt to vote off the Elves first, starting with Celeborn.

[The Saucepan Man]

Originally Posted by Diamond

Okay, so it's Day 1, there's already been lots of banter... mainly between Celebang and Mithaladriel.

Indeed, and the Legate of Orthanc too. If a certain fellow by the name of Nogrod were here, he might have something to say about this little triangle of luvvies. Anguirel and Mithalwen are, of course, linked by their roles. But Legate's little opening skirmish with them struck me as slightly odd. Mainly banter, I know, but possibly worth bearing in mind for the future.

Originally Posted by Anguirel

Remember that our cast and crew is scattered and diverse, and be not too swift to condemn the quiet (who in any case are punished in extreme cases by the Rules...)

Originally Posted by Legate

But on that occasion you erred, I think - or are you misconstruing my intentions wilfully? I only wanted those who are around to speak, if they are. It must be obvious to everyone that those from lands far away cannot speak up already now, only if they wanted. My speech was against those who are around, and are not speaking.

This comes across as rather defensive to me, given that Anguirel's point was admonishing, rather than accusatory, in tone.

Still, not a lot to go on really, given that few have said much substance so far. I too must take my leave for now. Tea, coffee and cookies on the counter, if anyone’s interested, but I would advise steering clear of the ghoulash.

[Boromir88]

4 werewolves! 4 werewolves! I'm used to having 3 and thats bad enough! But now there's 4! All hope is lost. No point in resistings the wolves will devour us all. Flee for your lives, I say, if you can! Or die in what was seems best. Durelin, fetch me wood and oil:

++Boromir88

[Anguirel]

I am now lost in a multiplicity of voting candidates.

I could vote for that unsavoury cook due to his vulgar mention of the Jackson travesty.

I could vote for the Lord Denethor, for though he is reputed to be wise he seems to be planning to burn down some vegetation in a pyre, which I disapprove off.

I could vote for the discourteous so-called Legate Curunir.

I could join the campaign to remove the uncanonical zombie.

Charmed though I am by the wig-maker Diamond, I wonder if her liking for Elvish hair is an attempt to gain the support of the Elvish votes? I doubt it actually. Wolf-Diamond would probably work through chaos, not politics.

I am grateful to the Lord Denethor for reminding me about the fourth wolf. That means that one in four and a half of us are guilty...

[The Sixth Wizard]

Hello all you potential dwarf slanderers! I have my eye upon you with your 'toss me's' and your 'nervous system's.

I have not much time toDay to say anything, but, as Legate said we should speak up and I may as well voice my opinion.

Usually on Day 1 we jump to less than well-founded suspicions, so here we go! When reading over the thread I came to the conclusion that Anguirel looked the most suspicious thus far, posting a lot and being in character too much. He looks a bit like he has something to hide to me. I see that SpM has come to the same conclusion.

Speaking of whom, SpM also looks suspicious to me at this point. I don't know why, I got this feeling last game, but he makes me feel angry.

Ta-ta till I vote, peeps!

[Thinlómien]

A flame veiled in shadow approached the discussers. The wing-like shadows it casted were dark, avoiding the sunlight. "You shall not pass", a booming voice said. Then, after a moment: "Oops! It was not my line!"

I'll try to be useful toDay (useful on Day1 ) as I'm not sure if I can get online at all during Day2 (see old post on admin thread). So, where to start...?

Like Mr Saucer noted, there has been less constructive posting than usually. That kind of worries me - after all, such intelligent people as Ang, Mith and Legate seem to have had plenty of time online. (Though, I admit, they've been very amusing. ) On the other hand there's not much to say during the early hours, but...

This is a rather big game and I wouldn't be surprised to see a lot of weird roles - knowing the CG animator.

Originally Posted by Ang

It seems to me unlikely that wolves will risk adhering to each other too closely so early on, and deliberate distancing may prove a helpful guide.

I wouldn't count on this, Mr Pointy-Eared Silverhead. I've seen wolves bantering with each other during the early hours, though I admit that's not too usual. However, this statement by Ang this early when he, Mith and Legate have been chatting quite intesively makes me a bit alarmed... (Even though I must say Legate and Ang don't look like partners in crime...)

Sixth then... I don't know what to make of him jumping against Anguirel. I took SPM's words about Ang as a joke, but Sixth seems to be serious about it and jumping to it quite quickly. Might be an over-eager wolf first-timer...?

[The Saucepan Man]

Originally Posted by Sixth

When reading over the thread I came to the conclusion that Anguirel looked the most suspicious thus far, posting a lot and being in character too much. He looks a bit like he has something to hide to me. I see that SpM has come to the same conclusion.

Actually, as Lommy the Balrog has correctly noted, my accusation of Anguirel was mere flippantry. Anguirel is far from being the only one to have posted mostly in character and, indeed, is one of the few to have made some points of substance among the frippery. You seem to accept that your suspicion is less than well-founded, but why single out Anguirel from all the banterers?

I am ever suspicious of those who pick up on flippant accusations, so my eye is on you Sixth.

Porridge anyone?

[Macalaure]

Pure in-character content within one of the first 10 posts is okay...

But pure in-character content within any of the later posts begs for quick death!

xyzzy, Rune, Brinniel, Boro and excessively Mith and Legate.

Speak sense, you filthy maggots! Don't you know we're at waaar!?

Originally Posted by Legate

Silence kills. Especially now. Early time it might be, but we must grasp as much knowledge as we could, and this is not accomplished by just silence or idle monologues. Rather, let us talk.

Idle monologues? Look who's talking...
Legate really looks like the worst of all these.

Originally Posted by Kath

On that subject there is a point I would like to bring up but I may wait until tomorrow or even the next Day to do so, as it's one that can cause a first Day to descend into a flurry of arguments the likes of which we see every time.

So you would rather turn Day Two into a flurry of arguments?


PS: I agree with Lommy and SPM regarding Six.

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

Originally Posted by Macalaure

Pure in-character content within one of the first 10 posts is okay...

But pure in-character content within any of the later posts begs for quick death!

xyzzy, Rune, Brinniel, Boro and excessively Mith and Legate.

Speak sense, you filthy maggots! Don't you know we're at waaar!?

Idle monologues? Look who's talking...
Legate really looks like the worst of all these.

What a load of rubbish! If one is not allowed to make in-charachter posts then what is the point of the charachters Mac?

Of course it is a problem if people keeps on doing it for a whole day and nothing else, but to set up rules saying that 10 posts in maximum is just way to rigid a system.

I really see no problem in my first two "intruduction" posts being in charachter just because that a sertain number of people have posted before me.

Let it be up to people them selves to judge and if it bothers you say so.

[Boromir88]

Well my incharacterness first post had a plan along with it, but umm that really didn't turn out exactly as planned. Since I have to vote in about 10 minutes, before I went to sleep I wanted to get some reaction and talk besides all this in-character stuff, so I at least had something to go off of for voting.

--Boromir88

Pah I was foolish to think anyone would fall for that one. Obviously you are all smart enough to know a noble Lord like myself would not stoop to the level of the heathen kings; killing themselves in their madness. No, you need a Lordly master, like myself (and not some chump from Elf Land) to lead us through these times. With that I shall officially vote for:

++Anguirel

No real reason, besides the fact that he is too jovial and chipper for my liking. That's all I have, now I must be gone. I do hope the rest of the day picks up a little bit. Where's Nogrod, to pick up the village chatter, when you need him.

[Macalaure]

Why this sudden fit of defensiveness, Rune?

There is nothing wrong with in-character-ness. You might have noticed that I left Ang and Diamond out of my list. That's because they mixed their in-character fun with actual points. And of course there's also nothing wrong with pure in-character stuff. All you have to do is deal with my suspicion then.

[Mithalwen]

Originally Posted by The Saucepan Man

[. Put hairs on your chin, it will.

At my age sweetie, that is no laughing matter ..do anyoneyou make up types have tweezers? And Brinniel, darling ..lemonade in my fountain - I don't think the lady of the Golden wood would be getting the vision with tesco value pop, do you? Make it Gin & Tonic, there's a love, does wonders for the vocal cords...

Boromir, my dear, we need a lord you say ..why when we have a Queen, beautiful and terrible... all shall love me and despaaaaaaairrrrrr

...ok, fair point despair premature, lead on Palantir-boy. But that is my chump you vote for, and if he be innocent I shall be handing you the firelighters..

Mac, chill, as SpM pointed out we covered all main Early day one topics while having our fun. At least we talked. Personally I am a little disappointed that there was still the one page when I came back *misses Roa and Nogrod*.

I am meeting my agent for lunch shortly but then I should be back up to the end. I really hope everyone will post as much as they can. At the moment I cannot decide whether people are jumping at genuine clues or straws. Day ones are not wastes of time. Given that there are more than a dozen fenris wolves, a wolf is caught Day 1 a good proportion of the time. This may not be one of those days but Day one interraction is usually significant in retrospect. Silence is not golden.


Fare thee well ...

[Macalaure]

Oh dear... and already I feel the need to explain myself...

I felt that the Day was going a bit too smooothly til then, so I felt like mixing things up a little (reason why I cared little about who I put into the same category with others). Who is better suited for mixing things up than the next best orc?
I certainly don't want to tell people how they should be playing, and if some have understood me that way I'd like to apologise. However, there are some ways of playing that make me more suspicious than other, and I think that is legitimate.

My main suspects right now are Legate and Six, followed by Mith, followed by, well, pretty much everybody...

[Anguirel]

I strongly suspect the Lord Denethor of having designs on my wife. And there seems to be a plot to kill me. How dreadful. I shall go off and commune with trees and return with some sensible, eucalyptus-induced thoughts.

I feel like voting for that Sixth Dwarf fellow but couldn't really do so with my integrity intact, as I happen to be his scapegoat.

[Thinlómien]

Mac, I don't get your tactics... (But fair enough, I've never been a fan of "I'm an innocent but I try to cause confusion" -tactics. And before you guys jump on it, I'm not declaring Mac innocent. )

I should go and vote soon-ish. No other things has caught my attention and rang my alarm bells than Sixth's behaviour, but to be honest he hasn't been that bad either.

I'm off to reread and to arrange my thoughts...

[Thinlómien]

This far those who have spoken (I don't count the icers here):

Sauce has been very amusing and contributive and I'm inclined to think him innocent at this phase. Boro is weird but in an innocent way, I would say, knowing his playing style.

Rune, Di, Ang, Mith and Mac seem all pretty normal. Nothing particularly alarming there.

Like pointed out by Sauce and Mac, Legate is behaving oddly. I don't like the feel of his first post. (Maybe because I don't like pompoeus speeches... ) Legate slightly worries me, though I'm not sure if he would be this bantery as a baddie.

Sixth is acting weirdly and in a way I could imagine a relatively inexperienced wolf to act. But he's not overtly suspicious... Anyway he's most probably going to get my vote as he's the only one who stands out...

edit: xed with the Elf-wannabe

[Thinlómien]

Alright.

++The Sixth Wizard

Hopefully see you toMorrow, if not then on Day3 (if I'm alive that is).

[Aganzir]

When this game is over, we all have probably read the Lotr at least once...

We doesn't have much time now, precious, but unlike we thought, we'll be able to return & vote before the deadline.

Sixth jumped quite eagerly on Anguirel after Spm's joke, but we doesn't know if it was because he's a first-timer wolf or because the opinion, though a joke, of a more experienced player kind of confirmed his suspicions.

We didn't like the tone of Legate's posts either, but we thinks it might be thus because we know the person who originally uttered these words was evil, and have associated the words with sorcery and wickedness. Or then there's something more, we doesn't know.

Now we're leaving for some hours, but we'll be back, precious, we'll be back. To catch fishes we go!

[Volo]

Mith I'm inclined to trust, though again, she hasn't said anything that I see other that in-character stuff.

Lommy's vote speaks well for her, but we shall see, we shall see.

Legate and Aganzir I find innocentish.

I'm more afraid of Mac and Ang, maybe purely for their harsh tone (and because I'm paranoid after learning that I'm "the confused innocent"). I'll try not to prosecute without solid factss.


SPM, toss me a vegetarian soup, would you please!

[Anguirel]

I'm being accused of excessive joviality and chipperness by Denethor, and of a "harsh tone" by Volo...business as usual then. To be honest, I think Volo's description of me conforms more to my stereotype than anything I've actually done so far, which puts me a touch on edge.

I'm unlikely to vote for the Steward of Gondor because he's behaving the same way as always and I want to keep him alive so I can kill him in a duel...

Sauce and Thinlomien also strike me as not far off the beaten track, though Sauce is being quite pally I suppose.

I trust my wife without reservation...but I'm not sure anyone else should. I'm a little unnerved by the universal credence she's captured so far. Of course I won't vote for her. That's the trouble with being a dominated male.

Saruman genuinely strikes me as a pretty odd, combative cove and may receive my vote.

I am, as I have said above, suspicious of Volo because his thinking, re: me, seems a bit lazy.

I am suspicious of Sixth Wizard Dwarf Whatever but won't vote for him unless I have to save my life, as it seems slightly bad form.

I might also vote for Gil-Galad, just as a kind of despairing spoilt ballot.

Basically I'm keen on voting for Volo or Legate if I get some support. I'm about close to the deadline so may retract in an emergency, but my first vote will be soonish.

[Brinniel]

Originally Posted by Mithalwen

And Brinniel, darling ..lemonade in my fountain - I don't think the lady of the Golden wood would be getting the vision with tesco value pop, do you? Make it Gin & Tonic, there's a love, does wonders for the vocal cords...

Very well then. I most certainly will do my best.

Okay, I have gotten up from my trailer a little earlier than I prefer, but indeed, some sleep has given me a chance to think things over...

I won't deny Sixth's behaviour is rather suspicious and the fact that he continues to pursue Ang (for little reason, I think) even after he realises he has mistakenly taken SPM's case seriously, certainly doesn't make things better for him. But so often, the one who makes the most outrageous statements turns out innocent, yet then again, I have been very wrong on this before (coughGlirdancough). These posts could quite possibly come from an in-experienced Sixth Wolf, but then it could be an in-experienced Sixth innocent as well. Hmm...I'm not sure what to think. Sixth is certainly not in the clear for me, but I won't place him on the very top of my suspicious list just yet.

Legate, however, I find more suspicious. He speaks loudly in his three posts without saying much of anything. And as I think it's been mentioned before, the fact that he encourages others to speak up in his first post, yet does not follow his own advise, is rather odd. I will definitely be watching him closely.

Anyways, I should be around for the next couple hours leading up to the deadline. I have this fear that the last fifteen minutes are going to be complete chaos (of course, isn't it always? ) since retractions are allowed and all..

EDIT: X-ed with Ang and Kath

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Okay, seems the discussion has started, I want to contribute now, time for picking Saruman's lines will be later.

First: who looks suspicious to me now. You have "colored yourselves" nice over the time I wasn't here, especially some of you. And there is already a bandwaggon running: against Anguirel. Some people seem also concerned about Sixth, which is quite logical (or is it?) contrasting move. Now, what I feel about these two:

Anguirel the Strange. Anguirel the Wood-walker. Anguirel the Barbarian Elf. Don't know what Anguirel's style of playing is, but he seems strange to me. From the beginning, I didn't like his style, it seemed to me as too much in-role and too long for an in-role, nothing-saying post, being vocal enough to be noticed, maybe even get sympathies, but saying nothing in game - not even trying to. Of course everyone posted in-role at that time (and I thought it all right, if only we didn't overdo it), but you would say Ang could make it shorter: for example Agnazir&Volo made little Gollum-Sméagol entertainment and finito. Ang was the first to post something longer, but saying nothing. This is why I suspected him then, and now, seeing a bandwaggon rolls, despite all doubts there might be, I am inclined to vote for him. Though I will wait yet - plenty of time. Let's see if anyone has anything to add to this topic.

Six on the other hand seems ok to me, and if you read the above, you'll understand why: he independantly came to the same conclusion as I, he started to suspect Anguirel. I sympathise with him now and I think he didn't do anything that could be called suspicious besides starting a bandwaggon against Ang (if Ang is even innocent, see above), so I'm leaving him out of my suspicions now.

Now to the matters that are connected with this. Based on what I said of Six, I am somewhat uneasy about SpM, because, like Six, I thought his "suspicion" on Anguirel (which he then said was a joke) as serious.

Originally Posted by SpM

Actually, as Lommy the Balrog has correctly noted, my accusation of Anguirel was mere flippantry. Anguirel is far from being the only one to have posted mostly in character and, indeed, is one of the few to have made some points of substance among the frippery. You seem to accept that your suspicion is less than well-founded, but why single out Anguirel from all the banterers?

If Six thinks like me, I'd understand why he picks Ang, so this matter would be solved for me. But now what alarmed me SpM did was, he rigtaway continued with:

Originally Posted by SpM

I am ever suspicious of those who pick up on flippant accusations, so my eye is on you Sixth.

I understand the thought if SpM were innocent - when you mention someone suspicious, even in a joke, if a person jumps on it, it can as well be a Wolf seeking for opportunity to find a scrapegoat. But the way SpM rightaway jumps at Six does not seem all okay to me. Also, SpM's vote for Sixth might look like creating a secondary bandwaggon to save a friend. Of course it wouldn't make sense then, if SpM & Ang are wolves, to even joke about suspecting Ang, on which some people could jump (like Six did). If Ang were not a wolf, it would make perfect sense if SpM were - making a joke, rising a suspicion on someone, then retracting from it so that he doesn't end blammed for innocent Ang's lynch.

The other person who spoke up in an important point in this discussion was Lommy, who mentioned that "SpM probably joked" even before SpM himself said it. What this says of Lommy? Well, if he's wolfish, for Lommy then it wouldn't make sense to be in alliance with SpM because of aiding him (with saying that what he said was joke) would get them in connection in the eyes of public. Then the question is, if they would've thought of that, or if they wouldn't ignore it (Lommy, from that part). But here I am coming to the place of very big speculating, so let's leave it for now.

The other person who raised alarms in Orthanc when I was reading through the thread was Mac. Mac is strange. He seems to be "over-eager in speaking sense", and when I remember him as being innocent, when I was innocent and him as well, we were pretty much agreeing on many things. Now he seems over-eager and strange. He is at first harsh like Treebeard's bark and then in #42 he is smooth as the wall of Orthanc. If I didn't have my script at me, I'd think he stole my text from the chapter "Voice of Saruman".

Other people have said either too few, or just in-character, or it makes a neutral feeling for me, or not of interest at this point.

In conclusion: Ang looks suspicious, Six not unless something else happens, SpM might as well be a wolf, Mac is strange. Others - either questionable or no data.

Oh, and one more thing. I think it was Mac who said it first and in a rather offensive way, but also some others, I don't know who, but some people said that my posts were just banter. Here I would like to note that ALL my posts have content. In the posts at the beginning of the Day, I was using Saruman's lines, but modified them, so that I both enjoyed the in-character play and also said something. So whatever LotR language my posts may seem, I am saying real things, sometimes just in LotR language. After all, there even wasn't much to say at that time. And as Agnazir said, if it at any time seemed offensive, well, that's the nature of Saruman's words.

EDIT: x-ed with Ang, Kath, Brinniel

[Kath]

do anyoneyou make up types have tweezers?

Ah, I think, yes Mith! Here we are. Though I wonder, Galadriel as a bearded lady? Could be interesting.

So you would rather turn Day Two into a flurry of arguments?

No. By Day 2 we will have voting records, a Night's kill and all the information from toDay to study. Arguments on Day 2 generally focus on individuals rather than ideas. But I changed my mind anyway so never mind!

But enough of that, it's toDay we have to focus on right now. So:

Shasta - told us he (?) wouldn't be around much so haven't exactly got any ideas about him (?).

Ang - has been having fun with his character, but there's nothing sinister in that. I do wonder why he pointed out the possible existence of extra roles, as this was something we all knew might happen from the admin thread and then from the narration. Trying to be helpful or just trying to make his post longer perhaps. It is also odd that he would point out wolvish tactics, as that is something that often brings suspicion. If anything he is acting like he would expect a not-quite-so-experienced wolf to act. A ruse perhaps, but in which direction I don't yet know.

Volo - um, I don't actually entirely understand his first post but he has since returned to say that he thinks Mith, Lommy, Legate and Aganzir seem innocent though there aren't really reasons for any of that. Is 'afraid' of Mac and Ang because of their tones but doesn't want to say anything until he has some actual facts. Bit hedging your bets there. I hope we see something a bit more concrete before Day ends.

Aganzir - mentions Sixth jumping on Sauce's joking accusation of Ang and says she doesn't like the tone of Legate's posts either. There are some good bits of reasoning behind both ideas, and there is a promise of returning later, so I'm quite comfortable with Aganzir at the moment.

Mith - there are some words of wisdom scattered within the banter, especially those about the voting. Double-lynches. *shudders* With so many wolves those really could be bad for us at the beginning. Her 'silence is not golden' point was a good one too. Plus, what she is saying in silliness is making me laugh out loud! It may just be the endorphins from happiness but I'm putting Mith in the innocent pile toDay.

Legate - his first post was all about the roles that haven't been explicitly stated, and there seemed to be a call for all to reveal, a dangerous move so early in the game. We've also seen nothing but banter and some defense about his previous statements, so I'm not too keen on him right now.

xyzzy - we've had only the one post from him and it was entirely banter. Hopefully we'll see more of him before the end of the Day.

Gil - mentions his hatred of Day 1 which may be why we've seen nothing from him since that first post. I can only hope he doesn't just pop in with a vote with no reasoning and then disappear again. After the last game I have expectations!

Rune - a sudden burst of annoyance at Mac over the banter thing has made it appear that he is talking with susbstance, but in fact apart from a mention that Mac was trying to stir things up he really hasn't said anything at all. One to watch out for I think.

Di - votes for Gil, for no real reason I think, but she did have to go early. It's hardly an excuse but then with how few people had spoken at the time she didn't have much to go on. No condemnation for that.

Sauce - seemed unimpressed by events so far and made some joking comments about various people. Then thought Legate odd (which I agree with) and made a comment about the possibility of Lovers (which I really hope aren't around), both of which were good points and had some evidence to back them up. Mentions some suspicion of Sixth for jumping on his joking accusation of Ang and then votes for him. Everything seems quite above board here, and the food isn't half bad, I'm keeping Sauce as innocent.

Brinniel - we've only had one post from her toDay and it had nothing of any substance in it. Again we'll have to hope she turns up later with something to say.

Boro - voted for himself, apparently to try and get people talking, but when found that didn't work he retracted his vote and voted for Ang 'for no real reason'. Now, having exonerated Di for doing the same thing I can hardly jump on Boro for it either. However, it feels more forced than Di's vote did. I know that's terrible reasoning, but how can you explain a feeling?

Sixth - mentions that Ang looks suspicious, and then says this idea was backed up by Sauce. Though Sauce's accusation was just banter it seems that he took it seriously, but then Sixth also thinks Sauce looks suspicious. Mm, I can see why people are voting for him, but I think I want to give him the benefit of the doubt for toDay at least. There is definitely some miscommunication going on.

Lommy - worried that people such as Ang, Mith and Legate have been spending their time chatting about nothing rather than trying to come up with anything constructive which is a fair point, and finds a comment from Ang that makes her worried about him. Also mentions Sixth and his 'jumping' on Sauce's accusation of Ang. Then thinks Mac is being odd in lumping Ang, Mith and Legate together with Rune, Brinn and Gil, when the former three had actually managed to get something constructive into their posts when the latter three had not. This is a very good point, and it seems odd that Mac would do such a thing. Votes for Sixth in the end because he was the only one that had really caught her attention. Well, she has made about the most posts so far, has come up with some very good points and has spoken with substance rather than just banter, and she seems to be acting like 'normal', so I'm going to put her down as innocent.

Mac - thinks Legate looks odd, picks up on a point from me and agrees with Lommy and Sauce about Sixth. I agree with the first point and I've responded to the second at the top of this post. As for that third comment. Sixth has been accused because he 'jumped' on Sauce's accusation. Well what is everyone doing now but 'jumping' on this accusation of Sixth! I don't know, it feels like a bandwagon in the making without anything substantial behind it. Says Rune is being overly defensive, which indeed he did seem to be. Defends himself against Lommy but not very effectively as his argument seems to be 'oh did I do that? silly old me, but don't worry, there was a reason'. Still suspects Legate and Sixth but we've not had a vote yet. Something odd about this one.

Well I think that's everyone. I forgot how long those things take. Where's spawn when you need her? Oh, wait, Durelin is missing! Hope she gets here before the deadline. Now, let's see.

Innocent:
Aganzir
Mith
Di
Sauce
Lommy
Kath

Guilty:
Ang
Legate
Rune
Boro
Mac

No idea:
Shasta
Gil
Brinniel
xyzzy
Durelin
Volo
Sixth

These are (obviously) very rough lists which aren't in order, but it's just to help me work out what I'm thinking. I'll have to vote relatively soon as I won't be here at the deadline. In fact, I'm going to vote now.

++ RUNE

I'd dearly love to vote Mac, but I want to see what else he has to say for himself first and I won't be able to before the end of the Day, so Rune it is.

[Anguirel]

Righty-ho...how about this

++VOLO

Wishy-washy, non-commital, unconvincing and dodgy. That a harsh enough tone for you, fella-me-lad...?

[Anguirel]

I think Saruman's innocent, slightly annoyingly as if we don't hang him we'll have to endure his insufferable tongue and proto-industrialism for the next fortnight. Nevertheless, that last, magnificent Philippic of a post struck me as bearing all the marks of that deadliest of animals, The Innocent With A Beloved Theory!

Certainly that tirade helps to convince me I did rightly in avoiding voting for him, despite considerable provocation. Besides there's something of a consensus building against him, I now see, which I don't much like the look of.

[Volo]

Disturbing: Gil, Diamond, Shasta and Xyzzy haven't contributed yet, or so little that I couldn't notice it, in this order. Durelin is completely away... Bad. Everybody else seems to be around though.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

After looking through Boro's posts, and more or less ignoring the yesterDay's because he really seemed to be in bad timing and the posts create a self-contained "equating effect" (he explains himself, so the general feeling is neutral), the final result is more or less like that I said earlier. If he were an innocent, I am convinced, since last time I experienced my share of it, he'd act differently. I have one very strong image of Boromir the Innocent in my mind, and it is the image of a person who goes around throwing suspicions, then picks a person and goes after her until he/she ends lynched. Now he is acting differently. About what he said on Ang, me and SpM I spoke before. His suspicion against my voting-post, while on a "good" basis (meaning I think an innocent might eventually come to that suspicion), is in my point a little bit exaggerated, making too much of it. Which implies wolvery. Also, his earlier mentioning of Kath and Di seeming perfectly innocent does not look good to me. How he even came to it? Speaking of Kath, to me she looks also sort of suspicious, and I think to more people around here, but since Boro operates quite a lot with hunches (which I totally don't agree with), it might be that he "feels" Kath innocent in this way. But the statement "if you are wolves, congrats" is a little too strong. The question is, if Kath is innocent and Boro were a wolf, why would he say this. Unless he plans to, let's say, kill her toNight, and thus get the suspicion off him.
EDIT: I can't make anything of it, but if anyone's interested, or for later thinking of it. This is what Kath says about Boro:

Originally Posted by Kath

Boro - voted for himself, apparently to try and get people talking, but when found that didn't work he retracted his vote and voted for Ang 'for no real reason'. Now, having exonerated Di for doing the same thing I can hardly jump on Boro for it either. However, it feels more forced than Di's vote did. I know that's terrible reasoning, but how can you explain a feeling?

SpM is quite a long story to read, but I might very well end voting for him toDay. His speeches, whatever they are, are many times too much "general", not taking it into finalizing, leaving some "vacuum" behind them, which I believe an innocent would fill - either to find that filling it solves the matter to good, or to bad. On the contrary, there are things looking more innocent, like his enduring case against me. If he were a wolf and I ended lynched, this could seem bad to him. Or would it? He might play an innocent who focused too much on one subject who turned out innocent (he even earlier mentioned this here, like that it sometimes happens to him - it was in connection with me). In this case, this could be an excuse for his action, and so the Wolf goes unnoticed.

EDIT: x-ed since my last post

[Volo]

I'll go off to mend my bike (or try mending my bike, like I have been "trying" for the last six... hmm... more, months) soon.


Before that a very quick word about Kath, Brinniel and Rune.

Kath seems genuine. A bit exaggerated opinions in her second post, but otherwise looks innocent.

Brinniel gives me the feel of a confused innocent, maybe even so confused that she could be a wolf. I mean acting confusion. Still, doesn't strike too alarming, though if I had to give four names of possible wolves, she'd probably be in the list.

Rune feels like himself. Though he hasn't said much relevant stuff yet. He might be a Rune-wolf, but I think that we should wait a few days before voting him.


Aargh. I've been thinking and rethinking.

++Boromir

, like I said before, something looks very wrong here. I decided that Aganzir should live, the way she plays is wolfish, but at the same very innocentish, actually looks very much like my own style when I'm innocent.

I'll go now, and not give any certain time of returning, but I'm going to think over this again.


EDIT: Xd with Lommy. Great to see you even as for such a little hop. Your vote isn't a good one, grudges? But I'll agree about what you said there in the first post.

[Aganzir]

This is probably waste of time, as we should have no reason to expect Volo is lying, but I still feel somehow uncomfortable about him. I started analysing him a couple of hours ago but couldn't post this earlier as Lommy decided to pop over.

Day 1
#5: Pure ic.
#49: Trusts Mith. Lommy's vote speaks well for her. Legate and Aganzir innocentish. More afraid of Mac and Ang.
#57: Agrees with Legate that Ang's half-in-half-out-character talking is annoying, and suggests Ang to quit it. Votes for Anguirel, but says he's probably innocent.
#60: Asks also Legate to play either in-character or out-character. Finds Kath interesting.
#63: Asks Rune not to twist his words. Reveals his role, because he's "not in a mood now and not too optimistic for keeping the role a secret".
#67: Pretty sure that Mac or Ang are wolves. Feels that Mac is going to get closer to Ang. Says it's no use to go analysing the silent ones. Says doesn't really want to lynch Ang, but he's far from innocentish.
#77: Tells more about his role. Says he was frustrated with Ang, but now logic tells he's innocent.
#82: Tells Brinniel he has already revealed his role.
#84: Asks if Sixth is worth lynching. Can see why he's suspicious, though.
#88: Thinks Kath is a wolf. "She analysed too little content with too much text."
#96: Retracts his vote for Anguirel and votes for Sixth instead. Suspects both of them more than Legate, but votes for Sixth as he'll be more probably lynched.
#110: Voting records that far.

Day 2
#119: Voting records from the previous Day. Thinks Spm and Lommy are in the worst place.
#122: Says Boromir has been acting quite un-Boromirish. Sees a connection between Boro and Ang, and says he will rather vote Boromir than Ang.
#129: Mac is innocent or a careful wolf, but his carefulness is a bit too careful for a wolf. Brinniel's vote is weird and she's being eccentric, but doesn't want to vote for her.
#131: Says he thought Mith was the Seer.
#134: Finds Spm interesting. Asks Legate to clarify some of his earlier statements. Doesn't know what to think about Legate.
#135: Finds my post (#132) newbie-wolvish.
#136: Asks Ang's opinion of Boro and Boro's opinion of everything.
#158: Analyses toDay's talk about me. I'm speaking nonsense and defending myself. Wonders where has the calmness of the previous game gone, and says he'll vote for me if nothing unexpected happens. Tells his post #135 was "in a joking manner". (Well, I can tell you I didn't see that you were joking, except for the in-characterness, the point of which I thought I understood as I had been complaining to you some minutes earlier that it's a shame we don't use our characters more.)
#161: Thinks it's bad that Gil, Diamond, Shasta and Xyzzy haven't been contributing.
#165: Kath looks innocent. Brinniel is confused innocent, or maybe a wolf acting confused. Rune might be a wolf, but we shouldn't vote him off for a few Days. Votes for Boromir. I'm both wolvish and innocentish but I'm playing a little like himself, when innocent.

When reading through the Day 1, Volo seemed quite wolvish sometimes. In my opinion the most suspicious thing he did was revealing his role, especially as I can't see the point of his role. He revealed it after receiving only two votes, and he wouldn't probably have been killed anyway, seeing how much more Sixth and Ang were gaining suspicion.
After a while of general confusion he told more about his role. A nice way for a wolf to avoid suspicion, to create a new role for himself.
He was also a little flip-floppy with his opinion of Ang. I mean, Ang didn't say that much between Volo's posts #67 & #77, and eventhough some who had played earlier with him said he's always like that, the sudden change of Volo's opinion is worth noticing.

The Day 2 makes me feel more like that he's innocent. He's contributing, he has some good points. The most important thing is that I find his tone somewhat different from the previous Day. He keeps suspecting different people, but with better grounds, I think (though it's not surprise as by now we have much more material than yesterDay we can use).
But the thing I don't understand is why he kept throwing suspicion against me, as I think he really should have known better than expecting me to fall for those newbie-wolf mistakes. I understand why others found them suspicious, but it was Volo who pointed them out, and he was also the one who continued accusing me of them.
Either I have overestimated him, he has underestimated me or then there's somehow good chances of him being a wolf.

I thought it would be possible that someone started accusing me of that post of mine, but I would never had expected this much suspicion. I probably should have kept silent after you, Volo, seized on my words, since I thought answering to you might seem overreactive self-defence (as it indeed seems to have done).

As for the calmness, I don't remember I was suspected even this much in my previous game, which you happened to mod. I suppose mod's perspective must be quite different from player's. In the last game you knew with 100 % certainty that I was innocent, and could look at my behaviour from a different angle than now, when all you do is looking for suspicious signs on other players.

Originally Posted by Legate

The more alarming now seems to me Aganzir's statement "were I a wolf, I'd never post it". Why?

I wouldn't have wanted to gain suspicion by saying it. I could have left it unsaid and that wouldn't have changed anything in my post. If I had been deliberately avoiding suspicion, it would have been better not to say it, ie not to say something that is usually considered a newbie-wolf mistake, and I know it as well as you do.

edit: xed with Rune & Ang

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

Originally Posted by Mac

I find it a tiny bit strange that Boro is suspicious because of Legate's double lynch comments, while he finds Brinniel, who made similar comments, innocent. I mean, I share his overall judgement of the two, but still it's a little bit weird. Where do you see the difference, Boro? You have not told.

This makes me think. . .I know it is shocking!

It was interesting how Legate found Brinniel's comments suspiciouse when he made something very similar, of course it was connected with her vote and he did retract the suspicion when she had explained her self. OK maybe this was not so interesting after all.

Now we are talking about Brinniel and we were!

There is something about her that does not sit right, she seems somewhat uneasy, kind of nervouse. Maybe she always plays like this, but gets killed to fast for me to notice, but I think she seems like she might be afraid to get killed. This could be due to her being killed so early in previouse games or maybe she is not and ordo.

Moving on to Gil-Galad

He might be busy at the moment, but there has been indications that he is not going to play like last game. This could mean that he is an ordo once again or that he is a cunning wolf. I still need to make my mind up.

Please someone say something that convinces me to vote for you as I really have to leave soon.

[Aganzir]

Anguirel, I understand your way of thinking, but I'm afraid I can't totally agree with you. To me it's not clear that Volo is innocent. It's unlikely he would have made up the role, but it's not certain that he hasn't done just that. He would probably find it funny.
It's a role that could be very easily created because it just is, without any significant purpose or meaning, and he doesn't have to answer questions like "who did you dream of?" or "who did you protect?".

I also understand why Brinniel suspected Volo, and I don't think that's a reason to vote for her. Of course she might be a wolf who startled when Volo told about his role, but in my opinion she looks more like a confused innocent. Or then a wolf acting confused innocent - I don't think a wolf would be the first one to ask about the role (if I remember correctly at least Spm and Legate had asked about it before Brinniel), but even if she had waited for someone other to ask more about it, she eventually had to do it herself (as Volo didn't seem to answer because she hadn't managed to see his edit on the post where he told about the role).

I'll go and eat something. Will be back in an hour, as I probably should also do my homework and I rather do it before the deadline starts drawing near.