Elves in modern times

So you don't think they would try to teach man the error of our ways? Try to clean up the earth? To fix all thats wrong today? Or would they simply just decide that its not their business what we do?

[Bêthberry]

Originally Posted by Elladan

So you don't think they would try to teach man the error of our ways?

If I recall correctly, elves made a few errors of their own along the way. There's always a difficulty when some think they have all the answers which others lack, especially when those answers are so entwined with nostalgia.

[Selmo]

Originally Posted by Elladan

So you don't think they would try to teach man the error of our ways? Try to clean up the earth? To fix all thats wrong today?

Frodo quotes an old saying to Gildor: "Go not to the Elves for counsel, for they will say both yes and no."

A more accurate statement might be: "Go not to the Elves for counsel, for they will get it wrong every time."
.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Selmo

A more accurate statement might be: "Go not to the Elves for counsel, for they will get it wrong every time."

I wouldn't say it in such strong way, but it's true, like Bêthberry said, the Elves don't have answers to everything and also are not faultless. They are, though Elder, just Children of Ilúvatar like the Men. If there were few of them, they'd surely hide somewhere in woods or on remote islands. If there were many of them, they'd have to merge with the current political structures of Men (which would surely be a fun to see), and then many of them would probably become active in debates concerning ecology, military problems (strongly against), definitely not technology (they'll have their own specific Fëanorian manufactures, if anything), very creative in music, poetry and art... in short, they'll be like the hippies

[Bêthberry]

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

If there were many of them, they'd have to merge with the current political structures of Men (which would surely be a fun to see), and then many of them would probably become active in debates concerning ecology, military problems (strongly against), definitely not technology (they'll have their own specific Fëanorian manufactures, if anything), very creative in music, poetry and art... in short, they'll be like the hippies

Hey, I was under the impression that 'hippies' is a bad word these days.

I wonder what would be an elven response to the military problems of our world these days. Tolkien was not a pacifist, nor are the elves, and certainly the warrior ethic is a major theme in Tolkien's work.

[Estelyn Telcontar]

Don't you think the internet would be the ideal hiding place for Elves?! They could communicate without being seen and would certainly hang out in sites like our forum to reminisce about the good old days...

[The Sixth Wizard]

Originally Posted by Estelyn Telcontar

Don't you think the internet would be the ideal hiding place for Elves?! They could communicate without being seen and would certainly hang out in sites like our forum to reminisce about the good old days...

How do you know this hasn't already happened?! There might be a whole heap of elves, wights, reincarnated first age heroes lounging around on this site... Who knows, there might even be a wizard or two.

[Elmo]

Elves cannae come back, either because their hroa has faded away because that is their fate in Arda marred or because 'Ruddy Hell, It's Harry and Paul' is on tv.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Bêthberry

Hey, I was under the impression that 'hippies' is a bad word these days.

From what I saw in US sitcoms, in US surely. But not everywhere.

Concerning the wars, elves surely were not pacifists, but if they'd wage war on someone, it would need some Dark Lords. But if they were to speak to inter-human wars, they'll probably stand for peace.

Originally Posted by Esty

Don't you think the internet would be the ideal hiding place for Elves?! They could communicate without being seen and would certainly hang out in sites like our forum to reminisce about the good old days...

Shhh...

So the Elves would not think of modern man as an evil force? Would Eru want man to continue as they are? I would think Eru would not be happy with how man are treating the Earth.

I also wonder if Elves did come back to the world of men now, would they be any different than when they left, and how would men treat them. Would men be afraid of them?

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

First, to your second question: surely. As there's already enough xenophobia even among humans as they are, imagine what would happen if an completely new species would appear. I can imagine gangs of "let's get rid of the pointy-eared freaks!" racists.

To your first question I answer with a question: do you think how men are treating Earth now is any different from how the men of, let's say, Beleriand were treating Earth? And it's not only about Earth in the ecologic way - the modern man can do much more to the nature than a man several hundred years ago, of course, which means that his actions have more impact even on the ecosystems. But if you say you think Eru would not be happy with how men are treating the Earth, then I'd say of course, but then I think he wouldn't be happy in the first place with how they are treating each other. And this is not just a matter of today, this was a matter of ancient times on our Earth and of Middle-Earth as well. And if nothing happened to Men there, then I don't see why would Eru do anything with today's men, if he suddenly appeared in our world. But this is a little bit off-topic, since I thought we were speaking about Elves, not Eru. After all, these Men are not even his Children. Or rather, Eru is not in our universe. You could imagine Elves appearing here quite easily, but Eru is something that has impact on the entire cosmology.

Back to the Elves - and what do you call "modern man"? I mean, if you had the Three Kings of Eldar suddenly mustering their hosts on the plains of Kazakhstan, who would they march against? Or what will they do? Or will several Wise find shelters, build New Lórien in the forests of Amazonia and New Rivendell somewhere in Himalayas and New Havens on some remote island in the Pacific, and there make councils trying to find ideas how to... how to what? Here is no single, specific enemy, no "Sauron" whom they could march against. Or what is that you have in mind?

[Lalwendë]

Originally Posted by Bêthberry

Hey, I was under the impression that 'hippies' is a bad word these days.

Only to Eric Cartman

Originally Posted by Ang

Maybe they could help find Tony Blair's One Ring...or muster against his evil craggy northern lieutenant, the dreaded Gordon (his name ends in an -on, he must be a Dark Lord...)

I think Elves would be out and out Blairites intent on constructing a deep and endless nanny state.

They would be the ultimate do-gooders and tree-huggers, recommending we all keep slop buckets in our kitchens and going round micro-chipping wheelie bins so they could tick us off for bashing down too much rubbish into the bottom of the bin with a spade (and maybe sneaking in a brick or two). Elves like Galadriel would be making 'designer jute bags' bearing the logo "I am not an old bag" and selling them as limited editions in Sainsburys and laughing behind our backs when us sucker mortals were queueing up to pay £200 for one on eBay.

Elves like Elrond would slop round in those slightly smelly 'sports' sandals, even in winter and tut loudly if anyone smoked within a 300 yard radius and follow Jamie Oliver's every word like he was the ultimate guru. They'd have those little carts on the back of their bikes to ferry the kids to the Montessori school and back (via organic yogurt weaving classes). Glorfindel would of course follow closely behind with his fancy robes.

Oh I've just described David Cameron...

[Feanorsdoom]

When JRRT wrote of the Eldar, it was of mythological figures rather than what one might call historical persons. He pointed out that his 'history' should be considered as an Anglo cultural text to place alongside the Eddas or the Domesday Book (if not the Old Testament, which he presumably considered qualitaively different), and that the Valar and Eldar are mythical vehicles through which moral values are shown to humanity. If we are to imagine some Elves appearing in the modern world, it must be more of a momentous occasion than merely a curiousity. What would bring them forth? Certainly, nothing less than Morgoth returning to Arda and someone finding the Silmarils in preparation for the Last Battle. Anything less would be shrugged off by them as childish games played by us mortals.

I, for one, would probably prefer to miss that.

[Raynor]

He pointed out that his 'history' should be considered as an Anglo cultural text to place alongside the Eddas or the Domesday Book (if not the Old Testament, which he presumably considered qualitaively different), and that the Valar and Eldar are mythical vehicles through which moral values are shown to humanity

I am curious, where did he make these two claims?

[Lalwendë]

Originally Posted by Feanorsdoom

When JRRT wrote of the Eldar, it was of mythological figures rather than what one might call historical persons. He pointed out that his 'history' should be considered as an Anglo cultural text to place alongside the Eddas or the Domesday Book (if not the Old Testament, which he presumably considered qualitaively different), and that the Valar and Eldar are mythical vehicles through which moral values are shown to humanity. If we are to imagine some Elves appearing in the modern world, it must be more of a momentous occasion than merely a curiousity. What would bring them forth? Certainly, nothing less than Morgoth returning to Arda and someone finding the Silmarils in preparation for the Last Battle. Anything less would be shrugged off by them as childish games played by us mortals.

I, for one, would probably prefer to miss that.

The Domesday Book is a foul Norman cultural imposition, no better than a Poll Tax handbook via which the English were weighed and measured to see how much loot the French could take from them.

Though of course it is a valuable historic document...

Nor are the Old Testament or the Eddas in any way, shape or form English. The Old Testament tells us zip about Britishness or Englishness - all it served to do was to direct the moral compass for a while, but you won't find anything about 'us' in there. The most you could hope to find is some linguistic resonance in the beautiful language in the King James version. The Eddas may prove more fruitful in that we have a strong element of Scandinavian culture amongst us (particularly here Oop North) - I for one grew up with local folk tales of Giants.

Tolkien was not trying to replace the mythology and folk lore that we already have - and if he was then his books ought to be burnt because that would be an appalling thing to do - he was melding a large range of cultural influences into something he could 'dedicate' to England. He was making an Artwork about England, not stomping all over the existing and very delicate mythology (as the French - them again - did with Arthur). He included the Viking, the Anglo-Saxon, the local Gods, the fairies, the Sidhe, the Brythonic Celtic, the Gaelic Celtic (just a little), the boggarts, the hobgoblins, the pagan water spirits, the Goddesses, the megaliths...

If you want to know about that cool quality just try to engage an English commuter in conversation and see the horrified reaction towards 'strangers'. We are not a very friendly people, but we have always had lots of fairies.