WW XXXIII - Other Minds and Hands

[Volo]

So... I've been lucky and the Book had an interesting underlined phrase:

"True!" said Aragorn, loosening his sword in its sheath. "But where the warg howls

++Macalaure

Of the rest I'd throw the guess:

SPM - Wolf
Anguirel
Kath - Innocent
Diamond - Wolf
Gil-Galad - Innocent
Shasta

Well, Legate and Aganzir are both Innocent.

[Macalaure]

++Volo


I have to say, Kudos to you! I trusted your great claim of being the Reincarnation of Tolkien first, because I thought that, after all, you were technically not a real gifted. Due to the number of gifteds, I knew that either you or Rune were lying, and now I know who it was.

I would have chosen to just let you go on, but since I am going to get lynched now, I have no choice but to reveal my role.

Unlike Rune and Lommy, who have twin roles, I am, more or less, a regular seer. The exception is that, same as with Rune, I can only see whether a person is an ordo or not.

I'm not sure whether Volo is a wolf or the cobbler (a spectacular one, if I may add), since I haven't dreamt of him, but surely he is not on our side.

[Volo]

Well... Who have you dreamed of?

[Volo]

Originally Posted by Me, when I got the phrase about Esspiem

This might be alarming, but I suggest and hope that you won't start voting for the name to be revealed. I'm not sure of the person's role, but whatever it is, it's not "innocent". So, in case he's the cobbler, let's not vote him, as we do need anti-Wolf-power (aWp) and even a cobbler counts as such. If we really need to lower the Wolf-quantity we should lyncyh him, but not for a few Days still. Sorry, not only did we steal your suspects, but we stole your tongue. I suggest everybody goes and presses "ignore" in SpaM's profile.

Ok. Now that we know that Mac is either a Wolf or a Cobbler, I can reveal my real () phrase:

'But if you want to be introduced to our chief investigator, I can produce him.'
'Where is he?' said Frodo, looking round, as if he expected a masked and sinister figure to come out of a cupboard.

Cross out that preveous phrase, it was just to find out what Mac was.

The real one is about SPM! And he's either the Cobbler or Wolf.


EDIT: Xd with Mac and Aganzir

[Macalaure]

What kind of game are you playing, Volo?

[Macalaure]

The additional information:

Night One I dreamt of Anguirel and found him to be an ordo. Ang is always difficult to find out, so I thought it was a good pick.

Night Two I dreamt of Boromir, since he was the major question mark on Day One. You now understand why I was so much against lynching him.

Night Three I dreamt of Rune, my main suspect on Day Two, and found him to be not an ordo. Since I found his overall behaviour to be very suspicious, I was quite convinced of his evilness.

Last Night I dreamt of Saucepan Man, who is another ordo.

[Volo]

Originally Posted by Macalaure

Last Night I dreamt of Saucepan Man, who is another ordo.

Ok, this proves it.

[Volo]

And that you don't need to go through your LotR copies if you don't know them off by heart I suggest you use this.


EDIT: Xd with Mac. "Loser!" I'm playing nastily. I want to be Heading for Tomorrow.

EDITEDIT: 747th post! \o/

[Aganzir]

Should we try to double lynch Spm and Mac?

[Macalaure]

You should better start explaining what in Arda you are doing, if you wish to survive this Day.

I'm beginning to doubt you're a wolf. A cobbler on drugs you are!

edit: crossed with Kath and Aganzir.

[Kath]

Are you kidding me? Another Day with two revelations? And our only way to prove it is to lynch one or the other of them, which I don't really want to do. Thing is, both stories are so plausible! Mac's has an especially neat get out clause with him only able to see whether a person is an ordo or not rather than what they actually are, as now when someone asks 'so why didn't you dream of Volo last Night to find out what he was' he can simply answer 'because he would only have shown up as different'.

*sigh*

I'm more inclined to trust Volo. Mac has no useful information. He's only dreamt of good guys and half of those he's dreamt of are dead. Why would a Seer reveal unless they had at least one wolf bagged? Although to be fair that's an argument against Volo too, did he ever say why he revealed so early?

I suppose we could lynch Legate. Volo has said he is innocent yet most of the village thinks (or at least thought) he was highly suspicious. If he turns out to be innocent it would seem that Volo was on our side.

Ideas people?

[Kath]

Cross-posted with a whole lot of people there right up til Aganzir.

[Aganzir]

Originally Posted by Kath

I suppose we could lynch Legate. Volo has said he is innocent yet most of the village thinks (or at least thought) he was highly suspicious. If he turns out to be innocent it would seem that Volo was on our side.

I guess lynching Mac or Spm is just as easy a way to find out if Volo's on our side...

[Volo]

Kath... Hey, come on! Why would there be a normal Seer when the other roles are wierd?

EDIT: Xd with Aganzir. Yeah. Pity a doubble-lynch will be messed up by them, but we've got them and they can't run away.

Kath also feels pretty lynchable, don't you think? Oh, I'm overexcited. Let's wait for Ang and Legate and everybody else.

[Macalaure]

Originally Posted by Volo

Kath... Hey, come on! Why would there be a normal Seer when the other roles are wierd?

I am no normal seer, as you have surely read from my post.

[Kath]

No Aganzir if Mac is on our side (and it's a big if looking at the evidence Volo has just presented us with) it's too dangerous to test it by lynching him. To be honest though, I'm thinking he's evil. Volo just has too much back up. And I guess he is right, why would there be a normal Seer in this game?

Ok scratch that, I'll lynch Mac.

Volo, I'm mildly confused. What exactly do you know? These riddles or whatever, have you had one for both Mac and Sauce?

[Macalaure]

Originally Posted by Kath

Mac's has an especially neat get out clause with him only able to see whether a person is an ordo or not rather than what they actually are, as now when someone asks 'so why didn't you dream of Volo last Night to find out what he was' he can simply answer 'because he would only have shown up as different'.

No, I didn't dream of Volo because I already knew he's on the evil side, and I cannot distinguish a wolf from a cobbler.

Why would a Seer reveal unless they had at least one wolf bagged?

Because everybody would have believed Volo if I didn't! What choice did I have?

I suppose we could lynch Legate. Volo has said he is innocent yet most of the village thinks (or at least thought) he was highly suspicious. If he turns out to be innocent it would seem that Volo was on our side.

I suggest to vote Volo. If he is what he claims he is, we can't lynch him anyway.

If Volo lies and you lynch me, you lose your seer and a Day's lynch.

If I lie and you lynch Volo, you lose your seer and a Day's lynch, but the wolves also lose a Night's kill.

[Aganzir]

Originally Posted by Macalaure

I suggest to vote Volo. If he is what he claims he is, we can't lynch him anyway.

But by "lynching" him we'd make it a lot easier for the wolves to finish him off the next Night, which they couldn't do unless we'd already tried to kill him.

edit: as you surely knew yourself.

[Macalaure]

Originally Posted by Aganzir

But by "lynching" him we'd make it a lot easier for the wolves to finish him off the next Night, which they couldn't do unless we'd already tried to kill him.

Yes, sure you do, but it's still better than lynching me, since I have no special survival power that Volo claims to have.

[Volo]

Originally Posted by Macalaure

I suggest to vote Volo. If he is what he claims he is, we can't lynch him anyway.

If Volo lies and you lynch me, you lose your seer and a Day's lynch.

If I lie and you lynch Volo, you lose your seer and a Day's lynch, but the wolves also lose a Night's kill.

If we lynch me you lose a lynch turn and me, because the wolves will kill me next Night.

If we lynch Mac we lose a wolf, a lynch turn and an innocent or half of me at Night.


Yeah, I'm going to "sleep". Sure, like I can sleep now...


EDIT: Xd with Mac, Kath and Aganzir.

Mac, invent the role NOW, quickly!

Kath, I invented the riddle for Mac to test him out. If he'd acted calmly, I'd have told him that I think he's innocent. And I got the riddle about SPM from Rikae as the Dream.

[Macalaure]

Originally Posted by Volo

If we lynch Mac we lose a wolf, a lynch turn and an innocent or half of me at Night.

Riiight.

Another idea: Since we are now without rangers, I am going to be dead this way or the other, so we could try a double lynching of me and Volo. I would be ready to sacrifice myself for it, since I can't tell you my next dream anyway.

~crossed with Aganzir

[Macalaure]

Originally Posted by Volo

Kath, I invented the riddle for Mac to test him out. If he'd acted calmly, I'd have told him that I think he's innocent. And I got the riddle about SPM from Rikae as the Dream.

Volo, would you please stop to edit your posts to such degrees! Of course you can play more sneakier as the baddie you are, but your bending the general rules with that.

PS: If I was an ordo and got that "double fake dream" of yours, I would have protested loudly, too. Being unable to make a counter claim to your claimed seerness, nobody would have believed me and you would have laughed until you were lynched tomorrow.

[Aganzir]

Brinniel about others in posts #180 & #246 . I left Volo, Legate, myself and the dead from the list.

Mac: Difficult to figure out (#180). Will keep an eye on him, but doesn't actually suspect; slightly suspicious (#246).

Spm: Nothing strange in him, but should perhaps take a closer look (#180). Doubts if a wolf would be bold enough to suspect innocent Legate with such a certainty. Possibly innocent (#246).

Ang: Quite confused about him (#180 & #246). Classified as suspicious in #180.

Kath: Her vote on Rune was strange, suspicious (#180). No reason to suspect her, possibly innocent (#246).

Di: Difficult to figure out (#180). Not very suspicious (#246).

Shasta: Not much to say (#180). His voting has been weird, but quite innocentish (#246).

Gil: He's not posting very much. Does that mean he's innocent? Doesn't know... (#180). If Rune's a wolf, then it's possible that Gil's one, too (#246).

Based on this I think Spm's a wolf and Gil's innocent. Of the others it's difficult to say anything.

edit: xed with two Macs and Volo.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Note: You are all writing so fast that I had to change this post about three times on walk, but this speaks to the situation in global as well as what has happened through all the time here now.

Just applause! Wonderful move, Volo. (and if you still were to be a wolf, then you are probably the best wolf in history )

And from what you posted, Volo, it looks like SpM might be a Cobbler, more likely. Also the bold way of his accusing would hint it. When I read through Day 3's posts toDay, I thought about that SpM might be a Cobbler, based for example on this:

I have, since I am very familiar with a Wolfish Legate.

I agree that he is far more aggressive now than when he has previously been a Wolf. However, I am pretty sure that this is down to two things. First off, he has been under a fair amount of scrutiny in this game, almost from the off. Secondly, I would not expect him to act the same way now as a Wolf as he has in the past. Indeed, given that there are a number here who have experience of a Wolfish Legate, I would expect him to act quite differently.

I think SpM's actual mind process was that he really thought I'd act the same, so he realized I'm probably not a Wolf, and so thought that it's safe to turn on me. And if he were to be accused based on killing me as innocent, then his death as Cobbler would be ok.

I suggest not lynching SpM now. A Cobbler counts as Innocent concerning the village counts, and Mac seems quite well a wolf.

Originally Posted by Kath

I suppose we could lynch Legate. Volo has said he is innocent yet most of the village thinks (or at least thought) he was highly suspicious. If he turns out to be innocent it would seem that Volo was on our side.

Ideas people?

Yes, based on this, you are a Wolf After all, I'm a revealed innocent, and one person down is better than just losing one life of a two lives possessing Seer.

Originally Posted by Kath

Cross-posted with a whole lot of people there right up til Aganzir.

Look at what she crossed with. Quite a shame, Kath.

And just ignore Mac. He wants to take Volo down with him, as it's, of course, obvious. Then they could kill him the same night.

P.S. Stay careful all. The Wolves might try to wreak havoc and confuse us. I suggest we lynch Mac today and Kath tomorrow, maybe you could check her, Volo? Then we'll see.