Werewolf Four and Thirty: Bloodbath in the Anduin Vale

[Boromir88]

Oh and another note as far as linguistics is concerned...could we question Radagast's knowledge of proper grammer? After all 'Radagast is a character in Esspiem's story, not Esspiem himself.' I've heard Radagast being called 'the Fool' and 'Simple' before, he seems kind of unintelligent and delights spending time amonst animals. Perhaps Radagast simply doesn't know how to speak properly.

Edit: x-ed with Aganzir

[Aganzir]

I think that seems rather unlikely. If we're told there will be hints of the roles in the narrations, I doubt even Sauce would put there false hints. But never can be sure.

[Volo]

I find Boro's post a great joke and nothing more. Punch me if I'm wrong.

I'm pretty much out of clues as pretty much everybody looks suspicious and I have to go to sleep now.

To break the tie between Xyzzy and Durelin? I'd vote Xyzzy and that would cut off my logic. Asfaras of Itgets has so far been true to the Wisdom.

tgwbs looks the most innocent so sorry:

++tgwbs

And this is not a personal matter, I'm merely trying to catch a Wolf.

[Nogrod]

Some preliminary remarks on those I have something to say without more extensive studying...


I will not vote toDay (unless something extraordinay happens):
Aganzir – Has been very helpful and bright indeed. This is not to say she couldn’t have fangs but I would really wish to see her around for a while at least.

Boromir88 – His readiness to stand up against a quite widely shared idea makes him look quite innocent. A wolf needs to please others not contradict them. I also think he is making a lot of good sense as well.

Rune Son of Bjarne – It may sound unbelievable but I don’t suspect Rune more than the natural ww-game distrust. He made some good points about voting and being worried about us lynching people who usually get suspected speaks good of him indeed.

Isabellkya – I can’t say I like the way she has played. Not at all. But for her being a newbie I would wish to give her the benefit of doubt for now.


I'm a bit worried but possibly not enough to vote toDay (suspect to rethinking):
Xyzzy – I plain dislike his playing-style (naturally not him but the tactics) and still know that in itself is not a cause for lynching. But I have a further problem. In the light of the discussions concerning the quiet / unhelpful / whatnot he clearly seems to let himself on the mercy of us. “I play this way take it or leave it”. I think it might be something like a too risky tactics for a wolf... or then just brilliant.

Durelin – Plays just as weirdly as she can. The dilemma here is that she can be the most shrewd villain or a great help later in the game.

Volo – I find his logic a bit weird but I can understand it. The problem with this is that it kind of tries to force a presupposition of his innocence to us in a quite a sneaky way (if there are also lupine hairs in him).


Once again I'm very uneasy but don't know yet if it's a reason to vote her toDay:
Kath – Plays exactly the way Kath plays, good or evil, in the beginning of the game. You can never fathom her mind until she actually starts to make a difference for good or when it’s too late for anyone to save their souls. I’m worried about her, as I tend to be everytime she is around.


And these two then:
Mormegil – Not posted yet. I would hate to lose Morm this early as I think he has a reason to be away. It's not like him to stay out of the game anyway.
Gil-Galad – Not posted yet. After some flirtation with active playing we seem to have gotten the old-time Gil back which is sad. I kind of enjoyed his recent self as a gamer more.

[Aganzir]

++ Shasta

I'm off to sleep soon.

[Nogrod]

There is one group I would like to mention...

Shastanis Althreduin – Could fit the “seen around wolf”-description perfectly. He has made a few perfectly reasonable points and some more or less empty show-up oneliners. So no one can’t say he’s not been involved but no one will have any idea on him either. The perfect cover, that is.

The Sixth Wizard – Another one from under the previous definition although he seems to have a bit more to say.

Thinlómien – The third one from the category. But the most productive one of them as well. A wolf Lommy might secure her Day1 just like this but so might the innocent Lommy. But she clearly belongs to the group.

Of these three I might be persuaded to vote for Shasta. The Sixth would be my second choice. But I would not wish to vote Lommy as she has at least left some marks about her ideas and she could be very helpful if innocent.

EDIT: X'd with Aganzir.

[Aganzir]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

But I would not wish to vote Lommy as she has at least left some marks about her ideas and she could be very helpful if innocent.

And think how mean it would be to kill her just when she at last gets a net access home.

Isabellkya, the only problem with watching the queit ones rather than lynching them is that there's so little to watch.

Mith, I meant it seems unlikely there would be false hints.

Off to sleep now.

[Isabellkya]

*plops down on the nearest available chair*

For clarification; this is indeed my first Werewolf game here. I can guess at what roles do from skimming other games here. But cobbler? Ranger? Lost on me. Shasta knows this because I introduced him to this forum. For other clarification I was having problems picking a character that I would enjoy playing. I thought about being pirate-esque.. but figured it would be annoying. I picked my character from a game called Baldur's Gate.. if you've played it then you know what I am talking about. If you haven't then I'll explain it a bit. There is a bit of a talkative-borderline annoying young girl who accompanies the main character on a quest. At the beginning of the quest the main character's adoptive father gets attacked and killed by the bad guys. The hunger- was mentioned because I was cooking dinner at that moment of my post; meatless fajitas to be exact. Plus I just skimmed the narration. So yeah me = obvious newbie.

I don't agree that you should lynch the quiet ones to accomplish an end goal. I think they should be watched throughout the entire game. More often than not; the quiet ones tend to live longer than the more vocal ones.


(Edit for spelling errors.)

[Mithalwen]

Originally Posted by Boromir88

Oh and another note as far as linguistics is concerned...could we question Radagast's knowledge of proper grammer? After all 'Radagast is a character in Esspiem's story, not Esspiem himself.' I've heard Radagast being called 'the Fool' and 'Simple' before, he seems kind of unintelligent and delights spending time amonst animals. Perhaps Radagast simply doesn't know how to speak properly.

Edit: x-ed with Aganzir

Or even grammar Radagast is a maia and he was called that by the treacherous Saruman. If I remember aright he was articulate enough, as reported by Gandalf, to say that the Shire was an uncouth name - though he omitted it's definite article.. so who knows. It is rather a digression. However SPM as a lawyer is tuned in to nice distinctions in language and I doupt he would have required a large number of delegates for a simple moot. So I would risk a small wager (thought not bet the house) on there being other enemies than wolves. Time will tell. A dark assasin would be perhaps only slightly less dangerous than a were-bear . Previously a werebear got nightly kills whereas the assasins were more limited I think.

[Rikae]

Originally Posted by Boro

A clever wolf can get themselves out of a sticky situation by talking.

A clever ordo can catch him or her in the attempt!

You may be right about gifteds, though 'quiet' doesn't always mean 'absent'.

If nothing changes, I suppose I may as well announce that, in the spirit of voting for quiet players who give one the heebie-jeebies, I plan to vote for Kath.

[Mithalwen]

I may be imagining it but gifted revealing themselves (ooh err) seems to happen more when votes are retractable and there is more of a chance of saving themselves. I have an hour or two before I should go but I am not very close on deciding who to vote for. Of the current vote recipients ... well Durelin - it just seems so bold for a wolf to vote seeming so spontaeneously. Pehaps only an ordo would behave so .. but bold wolves are not unknown. And I don't think Durelin lacks courage.

Xyzzy well maybe he has posted a bit more than usual - marginally. And it is a truth that quiet participants cause problems. But hten he isn't the quietist. Gil and morm arte no shows. I would give morm the benefit of the doubt for now. He may not have realised the "moot" has started - and when he arrives his counsel may be of great value.

Rikae - I don't know ... past experiences make it hard for me to trust her but Kath's vote may have been truly random. Need to have another look.

Volo's vote looks like a bit of a cop out. If he wants to catch a wolf why is he voting for the person who looks the most innocent? Or am I seriously misunderstanding the game?

Aganzir - could you clarify what seems unlikely - that SpM would make false hints .. or that the hints are there?

Part of me is tempted to vote Menel becasue the cod- Old English spelling is irritating (and who elected him knight anyway? - but that would be a bit flippant.
He has made more than the average number of posts but nothing radical in them. To me his behaviour is characteristic of the flying under the radar wolf he himself describes. Legate has mentioned this (so hard to be original here ) . While he may have been doing it unconsciously (rather than ironically) , on the surface his behaviour does seem suspicious. Make a reasonable amount of posts, seem helpful, latch on to a soft target. After there being two quiet wolves last time there was bound to be more support for killing the quiet this time but this seems a slightly too convenient.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

A clever wolf can get themselves out of a sticky situation by talking. The only way a wolf can not escape is if the seer dreams of them...but who even knows if we have a seer in this village?

Of course, like we saw last game, the wolf in question can make a challenging Seer claim.

I'm not sure who to vote today. There's Xyzzy, who made an early-on, traditional suspicion of Kath. There's Durelin, who made a seemingly-random vote for Kath... but she's been modfired in the last two games, so I want to give her a chance to play (that's the altruist in me speaking ). There's Aganzir, who thinks my posts have a bad taste... but that would feel more like a revenge vote than anything else, since I don't really have a clear picture of her. There's Nogrod, who also is mildly suspicious of me (little me! Oh dear! :P) but again, it seems like more of a revenge vote than anything else, and he seems to be a good player.

Leaving me with one choice:

++Xyzzy

Edit: X'ed with Aganzir.

[Mithalwen]

X post with Legate and others ..... It may well be nothing but a Saucegoose in the past has picked me up on fine point of language so I am at least returning the favour... and with so little in the way of clues one clutches at straws.

And now Nogrod has picked up on a group I haven't really considered. In a large village it is hard to monitor everyone.

And Isabellkya has returned and is new and perhaps should be given a chance (we have perhaps enough candidates for one night) . But I would say that quiet people survive because they are given the benefit of the doubt too long .. and then sometime villages panic or are manipulated into lynching them when there is no room for error and find that they were innocent all along. After all if there are minimal /non posters in the last handful with a couple of wolves surviving it plays into the wolves hands. Or else, they continue to get the benefit of the doubt and people say oh "they have RL things that is why they are quiet " or " that is X being X "- and that may be true but doesn't stop them being wolves...

[Nogrod]

Thank's for coming forwards Isabellkya. Now you only need to read a bit and see that we're not roleplaying but werewolfing... Try it. I'm sure you'll like it.

Good points on Menel, Mith!

Make a reasonable amount of posts, seem helpful, latch on to a soft target.

I mean it's also a very wolvish tactics to declare you have a logic and then follow it. It kind of covers your votes so that the you can always defend them afterwards with their logic. I'm adding him to my list of possible votes from me toDay.

EDIT: X'd with Mith.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

I mean it's also a very wolvish tactics to declare you have a logic and then follow it. It kind of covers your votes so that the you can always defend them afterwards with their logic.

I'm not sure I understand your point, Nogrod. Logic is logic, isn't it?

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin

I'm not sure I understand your point, Nogrod. Logic is logic, isn't it?

I see that I kind of wrote that one too rushedly...

What I mean is that as Days go by people start to read other peoples' votes with the knowledge they have gained. Now it's critical not only for whom you gave your vote and when but also for what reason you claimed to have done that. The most obvious "no tracks left behind" for others to analyse is the random vote like "I'll vote the one who begins with an 's'" or "I take a random calculator and perform some maths with it". *cough tgwbs cough*

These votes leave the others in total darkness about their actual reasons or the absence of them. So they're the greatest places for the wolves to hide without revealing their intentions. That is the reason I dislike them.

Now declaring to vote in random (or random with a method) is the worst case. The second worst of the kind is to say you have a principle and you will follow it to the end like saying "I always vote for the loudmouths because I don't like to read so much" or whatever. Like Volo in a way seems to be doing and Menel in a way as well. When asked why did you vote for X you can always say "the principle I gave demanded it from me". The problem with this is that you kind of outsource the responsibility of your decisions to a principle.

Innocent people can declare principles and even act on them as well. But the innocents are also ready to change their principles or make exceptions to them when they see a need for it for the sake of the common good.

EDIT: X'd with Mith and Legate

[Boromir88]

I can't be around at the deadline, today, I still have a bit more time so just some remarks on people before I make my vote:

I was a little nervous about Mithalwen earlier, but her recent visits have brought back the innocent Mith I love to see. The Mith that examines the narrations for any secret clues, the Mith that has a reasonable and soothing presense. So, I feel good about Mith right now.

A clever ordo can catch him or her in the attempt!

You may be right about gifteds, though 'quiet' doesn't always mean 'absent'.~Rikae

This is exactly the type of smarts and wits I've been wishing to see all day. So, I'm fine with Rikae right now too.

I'll probably end up voting for Menel...eventhough if I know I'm going to get hammered for making a safe vote. All I can do is vote for the one I find most guilty and that is Menel.

Edit: x-ed with Nogrod and Legate

[Mithalwen]

Can't come ot a better conclusion in the time left


++ Meneltarmacil

[Mithalwen]

Why thank you Mr Nogrod - the praise of the praiseworthy blah blah

While my grief would be controllable if Xyzzy went based on previous performance .. . it does seem to be a bit of a bandwaggon and given my disquiet about Menel, one I am not sure I want to join. Lynching the quiet is a good option if you can't do better but Menel seems actively suspicious. I would prefer to make a proactive choice and there are still enough people left to vote to make a vote for Menel more than a throwaway vote. I can't wait much longer. I will have another quick look at the moment I think I will go with Menel.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Mithalwen

It may well be nothing but a Saucegoose in the past has picked me up on fine point of language so I am at least returning the favour... and with so little in the way of clues one clutches at straws.

I don't know if SpM does things like that, but if it were like you say, then it would mean he didn't mention at all the possibility of innocents lynching innocents - and I got more the feeling that the intro is a very nice, clear image containing the basic rules in a nice in-story pack. It may be that you are right, or that Radagast the Bird-Tamer has simply erred in his speech (though he being the one who speaks even with birds, he should have known how to speak with humans. Hmm, or maybe just because of that? Always talking to birds that fly here and there and thus forgetting how to speak with people?), but still the most logical to me seems the possibility that great narrator SpM simply erred. I think no one except too picky people ( ) will find hidden messages like that, even if he intended it.

Originally Posted by Shasta

I'm not sure I understand your point, Nogrod. Logic is logic, isn't it?

Well, actually not and this is a good point Nogrod made. If you are a wolf and say "I always lynch people who do this and this", and then do it, although they turn out to be innocent, you can say "so what? I'm just being myself."

Seeing the votes this far (and bearing in mind that I wanted to vote for someone who was not voted yet), I can't be silent about one fear I have that we are quite likely to lynch an innocent today just because the number of differing options. The wolves won't have trouble to ensure we pick an innocent and not one of them (if even there is a wolf among the voted). Of course, the easier it will be later to check the voting list, but still...

[the guy who be short]

Why discuss potential roles (bears etc.) when we'll find out tonight? Why discuss the intro? - I doubt it will provide anything useful. All this is a distraction from wolf-hunting.

[Rikae]

I suppose I'd better vote.

I do suspect Kath, but she can be valuable if innocent, and I'd rather give her a chance to talk.

For now, I'm afraid I'll have to vote for:

++Xyzzy

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Boromir88

Oh and another note as far as linguistics is concerned...could we question Radagast's knowledge of proper grammer? After all 'Radagast is a character in Esspiem's story, not Esspiem himself.' I've heard Radagast being called 'the Fool' and 'Simple' before, he seems kind of unintelligent and delights spending time amonst animals. Perhaps Radagast simply doesn't know how to speak properly.

Ah yes, the good old days...
Anyway, I think Mith is making too much out of nothing. I believe the most probable answer is that SpM just made a grammar mistake. This, of course, does not exclude the possibility of a Werebear (as Boro already pointed out, Beorning villages are nearby), but I think we will know after the Night

Originally Posted by Volo

You the Bear? The role is new to me, what is it? A Shade-type creature? Or a cobbler with a kill? Or just a plain lonely Wolf?

Or isn't Volo a bear, by any chance, pretending not to know what it is?

Let's leave speculation, however, and go through important things. Morm-&-Gil ( ) didn't post toDay at all (I didn't even notice Gil's playing!), some people very scarcely. Of these I didn't like Isabellkya, because she said she'll be coming back and she didn't (at least until now). I think if someone's going to be absent, he should say it and certainly not make it appear that he'll be back when he actually does not plan to return at all.

However, I'm not going to vote the quiet ones anyway (reasons stated somewhere above). Now we have some "strange guys" like Volo, whom his new odd behavior might favour as a wolf, or he is simply innocent and nothing wrong with that. Another one might be Durelin, whose vote and strange other posts popping here and there are, well, strange. But since I remember a Wolf-Durelin being a quite vocal person, I think this might not be the case. Time will tell.

Boro and Rune seem the most "okay" to me for now.

About Mr.Noggins and Ye Olde Knighte Meneltarmacile I have spoken earlier. Noggins has kept his shadowy image of crawling haunter in the dark in my mind, but I am probably more concerned by Menel now than him. I have to ponder this yet, but I'm probably going to vote one of them.

Apart from this there is nothing much more to say. Oh yeah, one thing. Fea is definitely flying under the radar (from the very beginning).

Will be back yet.

EDIT: x-ed since Volo