Werewolf Four and Thirty: Bloodbath in the Anduin Vale

[The Saucepan Man]

With a flash, a skeletal woman robed in black carrying a great scythe appeared and started gooning and grimacing fleshlessly into the middle distance.

“Welcome back to Werewolf Four and Thirty,” she said. “The votes have been counted and verified, and I can now reveal that the first person to be lynched in Woodgard is ….”

Caught up in the moment, the assembled delegates held their breath, even though they already knew the result.

“… xyzzy!”

Gasps, cheers, and not a few boos, rang out as xyzzy stepped forward.

“Xyzzy, you have one hour to say your goodbyes,” the Grim Daviner continued, “I’m coming to get you!”

“Er, I thought that these narratives were supposed to be all atmospheric and canonical,” Kath whispered to The Sixth Wizard.

“I think that idea went out of the window when the roles started being posted,” muttered Sixth in reply.

“But how are we to kill him?” asked Rune Son of Bjarne, as it occurred to him that the village had been so intent upon its moot all day that no method of administering capital punishment had yet been prepared.

“’E’s a witch! Burn him!” shouted Nogrod, predictably, in an unfeasibly high-pitched voice.

“Can’t we just … ahem …” spluttered Shastanis Althreduin, clearing his throat. “Sorry, I’m a bit horse.”

Gasps, cheers and boos turned to groans.

“Can’t we just chop his head off?” the centaur continued.

“You should be careful that you don’t get a frog in your throat,” observed the guy who be short. “They can be fatal in these kinds of situations.”

“I say that we needlessly build an incredibly complex catapult-device-thing,” suggested Volo hirsutely, “and - er - catapult him out of the village.”

“Ye olde catapulte,” said Meneltarmacil. “Thou knowest what. It just mayeth work.”

“No!” declared de Legate of Amon Lanc solemnly. “I decree that we administer a fatal dose of poison.”

“By what authority do you make such a decree?” demanded Mithalwen.

“I am De Legate!” he replied, mysteriously.

“Look, you can’t claim to wield supreme executionary power just ‘cause some grammatically inept mod made a narrative-based pun on your name,” she challenged.

“Madam,” interjected Boromir88, “Might I ask by what authority you claim to nit-pick the moderator’s grammar?”

“But what about xyzzy?” enquired Aganzir, polishing her axe impatiently.

“We should administer a spanking!” declared Rikae, naughtily. "Spankings all round!"

“Enough with the Pythonicity already!” cried Isabellkya.

“We could just let him go,” suggested Feanor of the Peredhil controversially.

“…” said mormegil.

“…” agreed Gil-Galad.

"Hooray for Follywood!" sang out Durelin, inexplicably.

“Honorable chair, fellow delegates,” stated Thinlómien, rising from her chair. “Acknowledging the many points made by the assembled delegates in the foregoing moot and noting that voting closed over an hour ago, INSTRAW would like to propose a motion requiring that strenuous efforts be made to draw up a framework within which the conditions might be agreed for bringing about the ultimate death of the condemned delegate, xyzzy. Thank you.”

Xyzzy, in the meantime, had quietly, uneventfully and inobtrusively hung himself in a corner.

********************************

“Cheeky blighters!,” muttered Radagast some miles away in Rhosgobel, as he pruned his tomato plants. “Questioning my grammar! The very impudence of it. And now they has gone and killed an innocent.”

“Indeed they has,” observed the lark perched on his shoulder. “But look on the bright side. At least the moderator has used up all his role-based quips all at once.”

********************************

The dead:

The Saucepan Man - Slaughtered and boiled up in a spicy ghoulash on Night zero.
xyzzy - Got bored of the role-based banter and hung himself quietly, uneventfully and inobtrusively on Day 1 (Ordinary Innocent)

The living:

Mormegil
Rikae
Durelin
Aganzir
Gil-Galad
Shastanis Althreduin
Volo
Nogrod
Boromir88
Meneltarmacil
The Sixth Wizard
Thinlómien
Legate of Amon Lanc
Kath
Isabellkya
the guy who be short
Mithalwen
Feanor of the Peredhil
Rune Son of Bjarne

Those with Nightly activities, do your stuff. And don't forget to send me your choices no later than one hour before the deadline.

[The Saucepan Man]

Morning arrived, grey and bleak. The frivolity of the previous Day was no more, for the Night had witnessed grim and dark deeds.

The first sight that greeted the delegates was a trail of blood leading from Meneltarmacil’s hut. Following it into a nearby copse, they came upon a curious sight. A great Wolf lay in a pool of blood, panting and whimpering through his black fangs. The villagers hands went immediately to their weapons, but they were not needed. The beast soon died from his grievous wounds and, as he died, he transformed back into his human form. Meneltarmacil, ye Olde Knighte, had been a fearsome Beaste of the Nighte, but he was no more.

Their spirits lifted, the delegates returned to the village in happy mood. But it was not long before they discovered that two of their number were missing. In dread, they searched the absent delegates’ huts. The sights that greeted them there dashed their spirits once more.

In the first, they found a headless corpse, half-eaten. As they gaped in despair at the macabre remains, a cry of horror rang out and one of the delegates pointed to the wall. All eyes followed the outstretched finger, only to see the head of the missing delegate mounted there, leering lifelessly down at them. In his village, this delegate had been a hunter of renown. But last Night he had become the hunted and now a final scalp had been added to his trophy collection - his own. For all his hunting skills, though, Rune Son of Bjarne had merely been an ordinary innocemt villager.

No sign of the second hut’s inhabitant could at first be found. Searching, however, the delegates found sacks full of items that they recognised. Valuable items which had seemingly gone missing from their home villages. It was a veritable treasure trove. But where was the villain? It was not long before they found the answer. Durelin’s dead corpse hung from the rafters on the second floor. The delegate from Follywood had been a notorious Thief. Her folly, however, had been to pry into Nightly activities which she should not have seen. And those that she had spied on had summarily executed her for it.

The dead

The Saucepan Man - Slaughtered and boiled up in a spicy ghoulash on Night zero.
xyzzy - Got bored of the role-based banter and hung himself quietly on Day 1 (Ordinary Innocent)
Meneltarmacil - Fatally wounded in sooth he was and crawled awaye to find ye deathe in ye woodes on Nighte 1 (Werewolfe)
Rune Son of Bjarne - Hunted and added to his own trophy collection on Night 1 (Ordinary Innocent)
Durelin - Spied on things which she should not have seen and got hung for it on Night 1 (Thief)

The living:

Mormegil
Rikae - the naughty delegate from the village with the unlikely name of Castle Anthrax
Aganzir - the Dwarf delegate of a Woodsmen village
Gil-Galad
Shastanis Althreduin - the extremely detail-oriented centaur delegate from the Plains
Volo - the very hairy delegate from as far as it gets
Nogrod - the moody delegate from the Witch-burners' village who is ready and willing to form a theory to suit his feelings whatever the facts ...
Boromir88 - the filibuster delegate from Laketown, whose geography is not that good
The Sixth Wizard
Thinlómien - the Delegate of INSTRAW
Legate of Amon Lanc - the De-Legate of Amon Lanc
Kath
Isabellkya - the delegate from the village Kyaq
the guy who be short - the delegate from nearby Necropolis
Mithalwen - the delegate of an anarco-sydicalist commune, taking her turn as a sort of executive officer for the week
Feanor of the Peredhil - the slightly offbeat delegate who offers controversial suggestions to the moot regardless of lycanthropic tendencies

Day 2 has begun. Those who can PM at Night must stop. The moot is once more in session.

[Boromir88]

Well, what an eventful night, tis a bloodbath indeed! Bless the person who slew the wicked Menel at night. He should have been the one lynched yesterday, then xyzzy could have been spared.

Simply basing this off votes yesterday, but I feel pretty good about Legate and Mith who consistantly were suspicious of Menel all day and both raised good points that led to him getting under suspicion and indirectly leading to his death.

In fact all Menel voters I feel pretty good about...the only one that I have a little worries about is Nogrod. Whom supported and advocated Menel's plans yesterday, but then later on in the day switched and voted for him. If it wasn't for Isabell, Nogrod's vote would have gotten Menel lynched, but I wouldn't put it past Menel to lynch a companion to make himself look innocent.

With that being said I am immediately suspicious of Isabell who made a crucial vote sealing xyzzy's death and saving Menel from the noose, but not from a mysterious huntsmen at night. I think it's highly possible that Isabell was not planning on having Menel turn up dead in the morning, therefor she was in cohoots with him!

[Kath]

So ... how exactly did Menel die? I thought at first that it was down to Rune 'cause I skim-read and saw the word hunter but he was just an ordo. Is it possible we have some kind of 'Golden Dagger' role again?

Anyway, I missed most of yesterDay so I shall now go back over it and find out what actually happened!

[Nogrod]

Oh my... this game looks like it's name was not randomly chosen.

So three different sides who have a licence to kill running amok in the Night.

Of the killer(s) of Menel it's not in any way revealed whether it was one or more who did it. The same goes with the killer(s) of Rune. It looks to me quite deliberate choice on part of out moderator not to reveal the numbers. Of the killers of Durelin we know they're more than one as there is the:

Originally Posted by Spm

And those that she had spied on had summarily executed her for it.

It might be safe to assume at least to begin with that the one (or more) who killed Menel were goodies. So we could have goodies that can kill. But the two others then? The easy answer is that we have wolves and the werebear. The bear killed Rune and the wolves took the life of Durelin.

Durelin was a thief who had been spying on the wolves then? What does it mean or is it important anyway? This kind of bothers me. Was it just a remarkable coincidence that the wolves chose Dury while Dury chose a wolf to "thief" (whatever it is that stoling might mean) or is there something like a more meaningful relation? I mean if Dury died because of:

Her folly, however, had been to pry into Nightly activities which she should not have seen.

Then it could be interpreted in a way that those she spied were not able to kill but if spied on - kind of hunter-like baddies... or goodies? So it was not the wolves who killed her then? But who? Is this the reason why the narration is deliberately vague on the number of those who killed Rune? So the wolves killed Rune and these others who can't kill but by retaliation to any action (killing, hunting, spying, dreaming... who knows?) taken towards them killed Dury? That would a weird bunch of persons. Well Radagast said he was not seeing clearly...

Not to talk of us...

So easy explanation and a wonderful coincidence or the "thief"-thing in the narration meaning something and thence a throng of insecurities?

My brain hurts and it's late. I go and have a cigarette and sit back for a short moment to see if I have anything constructive to say before I go to sleep.

[Nogrod]

Okay.

There are different "fractions" in this game and we should remeber this when we make judgements on others. The familiar logic of all the baddies knowing each other vs. all the blind goodies doesn't work here. And there may even be something like an odd fraction to muddy the waters even more. So possibly not two sides but three. I think this is important to remember while we make our analyses or form our judgements.

----
Durelin's death I find interesting as it hides this enigma of a thief. So was there a relation of her role to the fact she got killed?

The easier version as I said surely makes it just a coincidence. The wolves wanted to kill Dury while Dury was up to the wolves, probably one of them. In this direction Dury has left us no hints whatsoever as she practically didn't discuss anyone yesterDay (see the value of speaking and actually saying something!!! we could do with some such clues right now!). The only thing we have here is Kath... She did vote her anyway. But would Kath-wolf wish to kill the one who had totally randomly voted for her with nothing of substance on Day1? I think that she could do it. No one who has played with her would believe a claim that she was worried about Dury and wished to do away with her. So no one would believe she was involved when Dury dies...

But what if there's a role that only kills during the Night if it's been acted upon (like the hunting, killing, dreaming, thiefing...) then the only person we might find to make sense that Dury was going to "thief" is... Kath again. I could even imagine a ruling that you must vote for a person you wish to steal her/his role from to add on your own repertoire the next Night or something. That would be an interesting role indeed!

Sorry, but I'm no cobbler. I just try to think things out...

Whichever way I look at Dury's death it still confirms my feeling that Kath is up to something that is not good.

----
Boro had a good point on Isabellkaya. Her last actions do look pretty bad indeed. But the same can be said of The Sixth as well and his vote on Dury at the last moments some minutes before. The situation was quite similar. In Isabellkaya's case the softening factor is her newbieness, in Sixth's case it is his assurations in both this and the admin. thread that he had overslept and had just waken up. I mean that I have been involved in those last minute madnesses many times and must admit that they may be quite messy. Even one moderator once lost the track of the situation... *cough Mac cough*

Still I think we should look at them both toDay more carefully.

EDIT: X'd with Kath

[mormegil]

GAH! The delegate of the silent has arrived and doesn't have much to say....at least not yet

[The Sixth Wizard]

Okay, here's Ye Olde Wolfe's post details...

#7 ~ Says we should 'get ye wolves out into the opene'.

#13 ~ Says the best way to do what he says in #7 is to lynch the quiet ones.

#15 ~ Thinks xyzzy looks like a wolfe because of his suspicion casting.

#28 ~ Defends himselfe versuse Boromir88. Re-enforces his suspicions of xyzzy.

#35 ~ Changes tactics and says in italics "I am not saying that we must lynch all the quiet/unhelpful/whatever ones!

#59 ~ VOTES for xyzzy.

After that: He be Deade.


So basically trying very hard to get suspicion off him onto xyzzy and succeeding, but dying through the night. We have to suspect Izzy, who saved him...

(EDIT) x - ed with morm

[mormegil]

Trust me or not I do not care but Mith is innocnet I tell you. Now on to Fea another one I can read a bit better than most

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

It might be safe to assume at least to begin with that the one (or more) who killed Menel were goodies.

Maybe. I'm remembering in the last game I modded that one of my wolves killed the other the first night. While that doesn't seem to apply to this game (the bad guys can seemingly converse), it's possible (I think) that there can be different 'breeds' of bad guys that might not know each others' identities. Menel could have been an accident, he could have been strategic (a decoy, or a martyr)...

So we could have goodies that can kill. But the two others then? The easy answer is that we have wolves and the werebear.

So what exactly is a were-bear? And has 'thief' ever been used as a role before?

Originally Posted by Morm

Trust me or not I do not care but Mith is innocent I tell you. Now on to Fea another one I can read a bit better than most

I agree about Mith. I'm curious what you'll have to say about me, since I've been unhelpful and distant (unavoidable) thus far. You really can read me better than most. It's a lovely change from the people who find me inscrutable.

Originally Posted by 6th Wizard

Nogrod: Seems a bit jumpy. I don't think he's himself.

I agree he seems jumpy. I disagree that he doesn't seem like himself. He merits watching as a general thing, but at the moment, he doesn't concern me much. To me, he's the sort wherein if we leave him around, he'll be as helpful as he always is, but if it gets to a point near the end where he is a bad guy, he'll probably give himself away. I'm vaguely certain that he's someone we ought to keep around for a while. We can always kill him later, but we can't always replace his helpful activity.

[QUOTE=Mormegil[b]]++Kath

[/b]Kath is Kath and generally I'm happier if she is simply dead, plus she deserves it.[/QUOTE]

Hilarious and probably true. I've missed working 'with' you guys.

Originally Posted by Lommy

Fea's posts seem quite self-centered and that makes me slightly uneasy. But otherwise she seems quite innocent so I'm not too worried about her.

Don't worry, hunny, I'm always self-centered.

[Mithalwen]

I am here - sorry to be so late but err domestic politics dominate weekends and this was the earliest I could get to the moot. While there aren't so many posts clearly a lot has happened over night and I need to get my head round it all. But it is nice to know I was right about Menel ....

Back as soon as I have had a readthrough....

[Volo]

...but I'd still rather not vote a person who talks enough to make slips.

[Mithalwen]

Well I have read but it isn't really helping yet. Durelin's thief role intrigues me and there may be some aspect of it that explains her attention seeking behaviour yesterday but I guess we will have to wait for the end to find out the full details.

Nevertheless her attack on Kath is interesting. Unlikely perhaps to be based on knowledge since we started with a day phase. And thief is not a particularly glorious title for a "good" (though neither is assassin). So I am probably being thick in not quite seeing Durelin's attack on Kath as an absolute indication to
lynch Kath. Either Durelin received some priveleged information at the start of the game or it was random or pure mischief making. But the fact
of her death would seem to put her on the side of the angels...

[Kath]

Day 1:

xyzzy - turns up and in typical Day 1 style throws suspicion toward the only person who has so far commented, me. This sparked quite a bit of debate but I don't really see anything wolvish in it.

Shasta - in character banter.

Menel - began the loud/quiet wolf debate. While it's great for us in terms of numbers it's almost a shame that he died so quickly, as we don't really know which side of the coin he was on.

Rune - questions Menel.

EDIT: Gah, sorry about that. Hit enter instead of tab. The rest of this post will follow in a bit.

[Kath]

I'm leaving in those who are already dead for now as it helps when looking at what they said about others.

Day 1:

xyzzy - turns up and in typical Day 1 style throws suspicion toward the only person who has so far commented, me. This sparked quite a bit of debate but I don't really see anything wolvish in it. Returns to say that his suspicion was only a joke.

Shasta - in character banter. Argues with Nogrod that he isn't suspicious, but agrees that xyzzy is. Mentions that Izzie may not know what a Cobbler is due to her newbieness. Now this may be true, but if there is a Cobbler in the game there's nothing to say that the role hasn't been given to Izzie, in which case she would know exactly what one was. Or she may have read over old games. Assuming the ignorance of a newbie is a mistake I have made before so I aim to avoid it this time! Mentions his own relative newbieness in a rather more subtle way by asking for the history of the Boro/Menel feud.

Menel - began the loud/quiet wolf debate. While it's great for us in terms of numbers it's almost a shame that he died so quickly, as we don't really know which side of the coin he was on. He puts himself firmly on the 'lynch the quiet ones' side. I don't think Menel is a careless wolf and so wouldn't fling out clues so early, but it is possible that this is a piece of misdirection. This plan rarely gets much support, so it may be that his fellow wolves are quiet players. Thinks xyzzy looks wolvish. Defends himself against Boro, and says that xyzzy could still be a wolf even if his comment was a joke. It's a fair point even from a wolf. Continues to argue for lynching the unhelpful, seemingly as a defense against Boro.

Rune - questions Menel. Says that the 'lynch the quiet ones' thing tends to cause the death of more innocents than wolves, but then says that if we're to do it we should do it early so we're not scared to later in the game.

Nogrod - random nonsense for a while followed by a demand for people to speak. Throws some suspicion on xyzzy (seriously, can I spell that Zizzi? It's how I pronounce it and it's driving me nuts trying to remember to spell it correctly!) for being immediately accusatory and Shasta as well for saying something without actually saying anything. It's an odd post just in that he is doing pretty much what he's just become suspicious of others for doing. Only 5 people had posted before him, all very early on in the Day. Expecting novel length pieces of useful information is a bit hopeful! He gives support to Menel, but Menel really didn't say anything useful. He just repeated something that is said at the beginning of pretty much every game. It's just odd. Tries to make clear that we should only lynch the quiet ones if we have no one better to lynch. It is a fair point but I often wonder what the cut-off point for being 'quiet' is. If someone posts once a Day just to vote with no timezone reasoning behind it then maybe we could count that, but if it's a useful post? The lines for this are so unclear. Then decides I am suspicious looking but xyzzy is still more so.

Rikae - agrees with Nogrod that xyzzy was wrong to suspect me on the basis of being first to post, but then says she suspects me for the tone of my post. Then argues with Noggie, saying in character banter is normal for early Day 1. Thinks the 'lynch the quiet ones' policy is actually a good one and that Shasta is sending out wolf hints with the mentions of being hungry in his post. That's actually a pretty good find. If Shasta is a wolf am I right in thinking it would be his first time? Could be a newbie mistake. Not sure on that though, it seems a little pointless to put hints in the discussion if he knows who his fellow wolves are. Continues to suspect Shasta on the basis of the narration and also says Boro is being 'safe' in arguing against the 'lynch the quiet ones' strategy. This is where I got suspicious of her yesterDay. When I was reading through she was about the only one that really stood out because that post felt really quite antagonistic. The reread does nothing to take away the antagonistic feel, but I've read the points she's making now and they do make sense. No point in just having numbers at the end of the game, you need people who are going to take part at that point too.

Izzie - in character banter.

Boro - thinks Menel suspicious, arguing that lynching the quiet ones is silly because the wolves are always 'helpful' in a village. Also says his jumping on xyzzy was odd. Now this was a pretty incredible first Day for Boro! Getting a wolf in his first post. But at the moment I don't think this is suspicious. The old rivalry between the two would mean Boro was likely looking very carefully at Menel's posts anyway. Of course it could have been fantastic luck that both were chosen to be wolves and decided to start the usual argument between them, but for now I'm keeping Boro on the innocent side, especially after his rather lengthy explanation of just why he suspects Menel. It's another tone-based argument, but Boro often suspects and votes from feelings rather than facts.

Durelin - says not to talk about killing the quiet ones yet as not enough people have spoken to know who the quiet ones are. Apparently randomly votes for me as there's no explanation given.

Sixth - thinks we should lynch a quiet one just for a change of pace. Seems to be a 'Day 1 is useless' person and so thinks the lynch might as well be random, not something I agree with. Thinks xyzzy is suspicious for that first post. Thinks Guy was jumpy on accusing Fea. To me that post seemed pretty much typical Day 1 banter from Guy, so it's actually this 'jump' from Sixth that has me wary.

Lommy - agrees with lynching a quiet person if you don't have a good reason to lynch a loud one. Thinks Nogrod was hasty in his suspicion of Shasta and xyzzy so in his suspicion of me. Relatively innocuous statements really seeing as other villagers had already mentioned this. Also gets bad vibes from Boro. In fact, I don't like this post at all. Lommy is really quite indecisive with 'they could be this ... but they could be that' statements running rife through it. Definitely one to watch here.

Aganzir - ah! She made my point about Izzie knowing about the Cobbler if she is one. Oh well, at least I said it before I read it. Thinks xyzzy isn't suspicious and that the 'lynch a quiet one if you can't lynch a loud one for good reason' plan is good.

Guy - says lynch the quiet ones starting with Fea, so a typical first post from him.

Alright, it's one in the morning and I need sleep. I've only got through the first page of the thread so far but some interesting things have turned up all the same. I'll come back tomorrow and finish this off, making sure to keep a close eye on the xyzzy voters since he turned out to be innocent, as well as those who mentioned Menel and Rune. I see little point in concentrating on Durelin. She barely said anything during the Day and it seems that her death was almost accidental

Nogrod, Sixth and Lommy are the ones that strike me as not being quite right at the moment for the reasons mentioned above. They will certainly be on my radar when I return.

[Mithalwen]

Originally Posted by Kath

Menel - began the loud/quiet wolf debate. While it's great for us in terms of numbers it's almost a shame that he died so quickly, as we don't really know which side of the coin he was on.

:

Huh -wasn't werewolfe clear enough... Durelin's the puzzle -at least for me...

[Volo]

Originally Posted by Mithalwen

Huh -wasn't werewolfe clear enough... Durelin's the puzzle -at least for me...

I think she refers to whether Menel would like the quiet die or not.

[Mithalwen]

Oh I see..that makes sense - that it might indicate if his co-wolves were at either extreme... ok ..

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

I wrote all of this yesterday before I realized I was out of time to post. I'll post more after I catch up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boromir88
You get in their heads and get them doubting, aye, make them as lost to knowing our thoughts as we are to knowing who they are.

Bienvenido a mi vida. Work together? Quote:
Originally Posted by Mith
Fea's game had a lot of players but only two - and no gifted. Unless my memory plays tricks...

It doesn't. I chose one wolf and a friend of mine chose the other one. Eomer and Mormegil. Eomer killed Morm the first night, the village killed Eomer shortly thereafter, and I continued to choose kills via coin flip up until there was only one person left (Saucie), and declared that person the winner. In the final dramatic death scene, the phantom died (with a kiss), Mithalwen died (from a sword?), and the Dark Lady (yours truly) killed herself, leaving a very confused sole survivor.

One should never assume that the mod is a nice person.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Izzy
I can guess at what roles do from skimming other games here. But cobbler? Ranger?

I was in the first ever game here and numerous that came after. I'm still lost on half the roles. I recently made B88 explain the role of cobbler to me. I'm still only partially sure of what it is. The Ranger picks one person per NIGHT to protect. If the wolf chooses the person the Ranger picked, the person lives. The Ranger is a wonderful role, really. Quote:
Originally Posted by Legate
Anyway, I think Mith is making too much out of nothing.

I've come to hold the belief that Mith never makes too much out of nothing. I agree with her about eying Saucie's word use, given my knowledge of him. He's a fantastic writer as well as being a loyer and a generally wiley fella. Since he outright told us he'd be adding things to the narrative, it makes absolute and unarguable sense to eye every word he says with critical attention. Quote:
Originally Posted by Shasta
I'm not sure I understand your point, Nogrod. Logic is logic, isn't it?

Have you ever compared my logic to that of anybody else? Logic is never just logic. Two people can take the same exact topic and, following perfect logic, argue two perfectly opposing points, both being right. Logic is based on a set of assumptions that may not be shared by the rest of the group. My logic is not yours, Noggie's is not mine. Quote:
Originally Posted by TGWBS
Why discuss potential roles (bears etc.) when we'll find out tonight? Why discuss the intro? - I doubt it will provide anything useful. All this is a distraction from wolf-hunting.

I rather expect the intro will only prove helpful after we've learned more, if then. Like reading any other story and going back to realize that the signs were there all along. It doesn't come together until you hit a climactic moment, usually.

Though I do recommend discussing potential roles. For one thing, it clarifies some of the more obscure roles for people who have never gamed with them. For another, the roles people suggest might tell us things.

[The Saucepan Man]

Originally Posted by Feanor of the Peredhil

One should never assume that the mod is a nice person.

The set-up

20+ Players:

Villagers
10+ Ordinary
1 Druid of Radagast
1 Shapeshifter (Beorning)

Forces of Evil
3 Red Claw Werewolves
3 Black Fang Werewolves
1 Priestess of Sauron

Neutral
1 Thief

Bascially, there were five teams - the Villagers, the two Wolf packs, the Priestess of Sauron and the Thief. The latter two could win with the Wolves and Villagers respectively, although only if they survived to the end, but could also win on their own.

The roles

Note - these are my own notes. Those with the roles were not aware of all aspects of them.

Druid
Dreams - the usual. Will not spot the Thief or the Priest of Sauron. Will spot the Wolves (but not their pack) and the Shapeshifter.

Wins with the village, whether he survives or not.

Shapeshifter
Has three powers, and may use any one during a Night phase:

1. Protect Self: If attacked by the Wolves or the Thief, will not die and will kill the attacker, or one of them - if more than one Wolf remains in an attacking pack, or if he is attacked from more than one source, the one who dies is chosen randomly (ie, he may not kill more than one player in any one Night when protecting himself). He may not protect himself two Nights in a row.

2. Guard: If chosen player is attacked by Wolves or the Thief, that player will not die. Attackers escape. If killed while Guarding, protected player may be killed by other attacker(s). He may not guard the same villager two Nights in a row.

3. Hunt: May attempt to kill one player. If hunts someone who is attacking him - both will die.

Wins with the village, whether he survives or not.

Wolves
Kill at Night - the usual.

Pack wins if all Wolves in the other pack are killed and number of surviving Wolves in pack is equal to or more than the number of any surviving villagers.

Priestess of Sauron
Is the only player to know at the start that there are two Wolf packs, but does not know the identity of the Wolves.

May dream each Night - will spot Wolves (and their pack name), Druid, Shapeshifter and Thief. Will be told what powers any Gifted has (eg, may Protect Self, Guard or Hunt) but not the details.

May ward off attacks by Wolves at Night.

Will be told the pack name of any Wolves that die (through clues in the narrative).

Counts as a villager for the purposes of determining game victory.

Wins with the Wolves, provided that she survives at the end. Wins alone if she survives with an equal number of Wolves from both packs and either no villagers remain or the number of remaining villagers is equal to or less than the number of Wolves remaining in each pack.

Thief
Has three powers, and may use any one during a Night phase:

1. Sneak: May spy on one selected player during the Night - will find out what that player does (whether dreams, hunts, guards etc - will also spot who is hunted or protected and, in the former case, whether they are protected).

2. Hide: If attacked by the Wolves or the Shapeshifter, will not die. Attackers escape. She may not Hide for two Nights in a row.

3. Assassinate: May attempt to kill one player.

Wins with the Village, provided that she survives. Wins alone if only she and one other villager survive when the last Wolf has been killed.

Other rules

It occurred to me shortly before the game that the situation could arise, due to Nightly attacks, whereby no one survived on the final Day. I determined that this would result in a Villager victory, since their villages would be saved.

It later occured to me, during the game (after Kath had been lynched) that a Day which began with two equal teams of Wolves might involve inequality, since the lynch would be determined by whoever was able to post first. With two or more Wolves in each team, I decided that it was up to them to deal with this. But I did decide that, if there was ever one Wolf from each team, and no one else, left, the two Wolf teams would draw.

Clues
Those who conduct Night-time activities will be told of anything that happens which they would reasonably learn. So, for example, if the Red Claw Wolves attack a villager and that villager is Guarded by the Shapeshifter, then they will be told that they were driven off by a Great Bear. The Shapeshifter will be told that he drove off a pack of [three] Werewolves.

The narratives opening each Day will also contain clues, based upon what might reasonably be discovered from the Night-time activites. For example, if the Wolf packs each attack members of the opposing pack, the villagers will discover the bodies of the two dead villagers, clawed and bloody, entwined in a deadly embrace.

Conflicts
If any conflicts arise as a result of Night time activities, they will, subject to the rules stated under each role, be resolved in a manner which allows all of the activities which may reasonably take place to take place. So, if the Shapeshifter hunts an innocent and the Black Fang Wolves hunt the Shapeshifter, both the innocent and the Shapeshifter will be found dead in the morning.

What they were told

To Legate of Amon Lanc
You are a Druid, a follower of Radagast.

Two nights ago, Radagast, fearing that the agents of evil were afoot, sent to you a white dove, who bade you come to Woodgard to assist the Woodsmen in their plight.

As a Druid, you have the Power of Seeing. Each Night, you may commune with the forces of nature to ascertain the hidden role of a fellow villager. You must send to me (by PM) the name of the villager that you have chosen to scry and you will be told whether they are a Wolf, whether they are a fellow agent of Radagast or whether they are neither.

You will win with the village, whether you survive the bloodbath or not.

To Boromir88
You are a Shapeshifter, a descendant of Beorn. Two nights ago, Radagast, fearing that the agents of evil were afoot, sent to you a white deer, who bade you come to Woodgard to assist the Woodsmen in their plight.

As a Shapeshifter, you may assume the form of a Great Bear at Night and, when in this form, you may use one of three Powers:

1. Protect Self: If attacked in the Night, you will not die but will instead kill one of your attackers. Your honour forbids you from protecting yourself for two Nights in a row.

2. Guard: You may select another villager to guard. If that villager is attacked in the Night, he or she will not die (although the attackers will escape). You may not guard the same villager for two Nights in a row.

3. Hunt: You may select another villager to kill. That villager will die before the sun rises, whether guilty or innocent.

Each Night phase, you should notify me (by PM) which Power you intend to use and, if you intend to Guard or Hunt, identify the villager you have selected.

You will win with the village, whether you survive the bloodbath or not.

To Durelin
You are a Thief who thinks nothing of others, but only of your own gain. Hearing that Woodgard was deserted, you came in search of loot, but are now trapped here.

Your foremost consideration is your own survival. Your second consideration is the possibility that the situation may be turned to your advantage. To assist you in achieving these objectives, you have three Powers and may select one to use during a Night phase:

1. Sneak: You may spy on one villager during the Night and will learn of any events involving that villager that occur during that Night.

2. Hide: If attacked in the Night, you will not die. Your curiosity and greed prevents you from hiding for two Nights in a row.

3. Assassinate: You may select another villager to assassinate. That villager will be killed, unless protected.

However, be warned. Once a Thief, always a Thief. Should you choose to Assassinate, you will not be able to resist pinching a valuable item from your chosen victim.

Each Night phase, you should notify me (by PM) which power you intend to use and, if you intend to Sneak or Assassinate, identify the villager you have selected.

If you survive to the end, you will win with the village. If, however, only you and one other villager survive when the last Wolf is killed, you may slit that villager’s throat and claim victory (and the booty) for yourself.

To Kath
You are a Priestess of Sauron. Your Lord appeared to you in a dream and bade you ride out from Dol Guldur to assist the Werewolves against the Woodsmen. He told you that the delegates would be lured to Woodgard, and that the Werewolves would be directed there also.

The previous Night, your Lord revealed to you in a further dream that two packs of Werewolves are operating in this area: the Black Fang Gang and the the Red Claw Mob. You and only you are aware of this (the Wolves themselves are not), although you have no idea who the Werewolves are. Sauron ordered you to assist both packs in whatever way you can, but also warned you that the two packs are fierce rivals and that each will as readily attack the other as they will the innocent Woodsmen. He also told you, however, that the packs may be united if they openly match each other in strength and that you will earn great reward from him if you can bring this about.

To assist you in your endeavours, you may invoke your Lord’s power each Night to learn the identity of a fellow villager of your choosing. You must send to me (by PM) the name of the villager that you have selected. If you choose a Werewolf, you will be informed of this and also which pack the Werewolf belongs to. If you choose another villager with a hidden role, you will be told of that hidden role.

You have one additional power. If the Werewolves choose you to Hunt at Night, you may ward them off and you will not be killed, although the Werewolves will not be able to select another target that Night. You may, of course, be lynched in the normal way.

Should either pack of Werewolves be victorious (which requires them to eliminate the other pack as well as the villagers), you will win with them, provided that you survive at the end (although you count as a villager for the purposes of determining victory). If, however, the game ends with an equal number of Wolves in each pack and the number of remaining villagers (including you) is equal to or less than the number of Wolves remaining in each pack, you may claim victory (and Sauron’s reward) for yourself. If all the Werewolves are killed, you will be consumed by the wrath of your Lord.

To Each Wolf Pack
You are all Werewolves together.

You may select a villager to Hunt each Night by one of your number sending to me (by PM) your chosen target. That villager will be killed, unless protected.

You may PM each other at Night, but not during the Day.

Your mission is to eliminate the villagers and you will win when the number of villagers remaining is equal to or less than the number of you that remain.

More to come ...

[The Saucepan Man]

Night 1

The Druid dreamed of Rikae
The Shapeshifter hunted Meneltarmacil
The Priestess of Sauron dreamed of Rikae (were your ears burning that Night, Rikae? )
The Thief spied on Nogrod
The Red Claw Wolves hunted Rune
The Black Claw Wolves hunted Durelin

The narrative reference to Durelin having spied on something that she should not have seen was prompted by the fact that Durelin had spied on Nogrod, who duly circled back with his pack and attacked her. It was a red herring, really, but I enjoyed the effect it had.

Night 2

The Druid dreamed of tgwbs
The Shapeshifter protected himself
The Red Claw Wolves hunted Rikae
The Black Claw Wolves hunted Legate

Night 3

The Shapeshifter hunted Shasta
The Red Claw Wolves hunted tgwbs
The Black Claw Wolves hunted Fea

Night 4

The Shapeshifter protected himself
The Red Claw Wolves hunted Boro
The Black Claw Wolves hunted Aganzir (but found her already dead)

Night 5

The Shapeshifter hunted Nogrod
The Black Claw Wolves hunted Boro

Night 6

(Notified during Day 6, when Volo's fate had been sealed.)

The Black Claw Wolves hunted mormegil

Thoughts to follow ...

[The Saucepan Man]

I was somewhat concerned about game balance, as there were so many variables, but had carried out some 'dry runs', which used the randomiser but also took account of intelligent choices by the hidden roles. The basic premise was that there were to be multiple Wolf packs. I had orginally planned on three ( ), but testing indicated that this would probably require at least 24 players to give the Villagers a decent chance. So I settled on two packs and testing indicated that, with the hidden roles we had, this would produce a Villager win approximately 50% of the time. In other words, it was 50:50 between the Villagers and the Wolves, but each individual Wolf pack had only a 25% (approx) chance of winning.

The Thief and the Priestess of Sauron obviously had a much lower chance of winning, since they needed to survive the bloodbath to the end, but the compensation for this was that they could win alone in particular circumstances. Their powers were also devised to give them a better shot at winning (ie, the Thief's hide ability and the Priestess' ability to survive Wolf attacks).

I must admit that I was rather annoyed that both died early on, as I was looking forward to seeing how they might use their powers in pursuit of the solo victory. If only Durelin had hidden on Night 1 although, with the chance of being killed at its lowest on Night 1, I can understand why she did not.

Despite the testing, I was still worried about game balance, but figured that the fact that there were six Wolves would be mitigated by the fact that the Wolf packs could very easily attack each other (and I was suprised that this did not happen until the fourth Night). Also, the likelihood of a Wolf being lynched early in the game (on pure chance alone) was greater than usual. And then there were, of course, the Shapeshifter's significant powers, which had the potential (and, given the bold way that Boro played it, the actuality) of creating havoc among the Wolves.

Still, given that it came down to three (well, two, really) Villagers and one Wolf and could have gone either way on the final Day, the balance looks to have been about right. I always knew it would be a bloodbath, though. Potentially, there could have been four kills in one Night (with the Thief's ability to Assassinate).

Obviously, this was a really fun game to mod, albeit somewhat demanding at first with all the Nightly activity going on and the need to bash out narratives as fast as I could (I would have liked to work a bit more on a few of them). And what a bunch of players!

Highlights include:

- Nogrod's first post, which was all over the place. I thought he was a dead cert for an early shower after this, but he recovered impressively.
- Legate's reference to white doves in his opening post - a clever signal to send out.
- Isabelkya's vote to unwittingly save Menel (a rival Wolf).
- Nogrod's last minute vote for Menel which nearly did for him (I was unaware of the history here).
- Boro's astoundingly aggressive (and largely successful) approach to the game, which was breathtaking. He didn't protect another villager once.
- Watching Boro trying to bait his trap on Day 2, in the full knowledge of what he was trying to do.
- Little Miss Aganzir's 'butter wouldn't melt in her mouth' performance.
- Realising that Night 3 really was going to be a slaughter of the innocents.
- Mith's eccentric Day 4 performance and her wonderful trickery, following her confession - I think that you might have survived the Day Mith, but it did look to be either you or Nogrod before you 'fessed up.
- Boro and Lommy's duel on Day 5. I felt sure that Boro would be lynched and that it would probably be game over. Noggie, was it your renowned sportsmanship which prevented you voting for him?
- The inexplicable abandonment of the 'two Wolf pack' theory on Day 5, just when it might have helped explain what had happened the previous Night.
- The tension on the final Day, when it could have gone either way.

I am sure that there are others that escape me now.

This game was an absolute joy to mod, and many thanks to all of you (Gil excepted, of course) for making it so.

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by The Saucepan Man

- Boro and Lommy's duel on Day 5. I felt sure that Boro would be lynched and that it would probably be game over. Noggie, was it your renowned sportsmanship which prevented you voting for him?

I must say it was partly that as I wished to see what Boro might have in store as yet. But partly also the fact that he might be even more lynchable the next Day as the "five wolf"-theory seemed to prevail... I mean why make a lynch of an innocent if only a few drive the lynch (and thence look suspicious to others - so I eased my pressure on Boro quite early letting Lommy to press him - and thence she would be looked at as the suspicious one...) while you have a chance to get all the remaining players to suspect Boro with some risk-taking? So the time was not ripe I would say.

- The inexplicable abandonment of the 'two Wolf pack' theory on Day 5, just when it might have helped explain what had happened the previous Night.

I must say I'm as astonished as you are even though I did my best to promote the idea as well... I think it's a psychological thing: the idea that looks easier or less anguish-promising is more easily adopted as the right one.

- The tension on the final Day, when it could have gone either way.

I still can't fathom how it went that way! It looked so certain that the Sixth would be lynched but...

[The Saucepan Man]

By the way, I think that it was Volo who noticed that, as far as the Wolf packs were concerned, there was a 'gentleman's team' and a 'ladies' team'. Naughty of me, I know. The hidden role choices were a combination of random selection and deliberate selection. As I said, I was unaware that Noggie and Menel had been Wolves together before, and Menel was only a Wolf because the randomiser insisted on it.

As to the great set of players that made up this game:

Mormegil - I am glad you made it, my friend. I rather forced you into the game, given that you had only expressed a tentative interest, but I wanted to get underway quickly and needed 20 players. You role was pivotal in the end, but don't be too hard on yourself. It was a tough choice. We've all been there.
Rikae - Sorry you couldn't have been around longer, but I enjoyed the forceful way that you played and, in particular, your spat with Boro.
Durelin - Really sorry about your early shower, as I was looking forward to seeing how you played this role. You were hand-picked for it (and ideally suited) after your comments about the Shade role in Volo's game.
Aganzir - I was interested to see how you would play as a Wolf, and I was not disappointed. Really, butter would not have melted in your mouth ...
Gil-Galad - A disappointment. I was really hoping that there would be no 'no shows' in this game. It clearly affected the game, but I suppose it added a different dimension.
Shastanis Althreduin - But for Boro's 'red mist' you may well have survived to the end, just as Sixth did. I loved the "Anyhoof!" and am indebted to you for giving me the opportunity to use the 'I'm a bit hoarse' gag. The old 'uns are the best.
Volo - I fully understood the strategy of going against your gut instinct, ad I have felt like doing that many a time. But, as it happens, your instincts were pretty good this game. You nearly died on Night 1, you know, courtesy of the Red Claw Mob. After a PM from Mith, I had your death written up, and then Aganzir notified Rune to me at the last moment.
Nogrod - That opening post! Really! I thought that you were done for. But you showed what a dangerous player you can be with your great recovery and subsequent performance.
Boromir88 - What can I say? Breathtaking! An absolutely bravura performance, taking down half of the Wolves (oh, and one innocent) single-handed. Bold, gutsy stuff and great fun to watch.
Meneltarmacil - In sooth, a shame it is that you were not arounde longere, to annoye ye othere Villagers with thine language. It looks like you provided Noggie with good cover though. Must have been a shock to see that Great Bear storming into your hut ...
The Sixth Wizard - A textbook 'fly under the radar' Wolf performance. And it worked. You held your nerve well on the final Day to take the victory.
Thinlómien - I think it was you, of the Villagers, who first spotted the possibility of two Wolf packs and your instincts on the role possibilities were generally good. What happened to the 'two Wolf pack' theory on Day 5, though? Still, your attack on Boro was fun to watch. And another role that gave me some fun in writing the narratives.
Legate of Amon Lanc - You could have been a contender, but for Noggie's seeming ability to sniff out a Seer. You never really had enough to work with, and it was a shame that your clue about Rikae was somewhat redundant by the time it was picked up. Liked the white doves though. Did you notice your central role in Isabellkya's death?
Kath - Again, you never really got a chance to get into your role. I would have liked to have seen what you made of it, having been a Goose to your Duck in a previous life. Strangely, it appears to have been Durelin's vote for you on Day 1 that mainly sealed your fate, although I never fully understood the reasoning on that one.
Isabellkya - Looks like you were lynched just as you were getting into your stride. It was probably your change of pace that did for you, but I liked the way that you were getting into it.
the guy who be short - Some good ideas on the possible roles, as I recall, but you were rather cut short in your prime ... (*groan*)
xyzzy - Just as you were getting more active, the Villagers go and lynch you on Day 1, the rotten lot. Don't let it put you off, though. I like the more talkative xyzzy.
Mithalwen - Another 'what can I say?' I was shocked and stunned by your confession, but it was great fun to watch it unfold. You make a great Wolf, and I was surprised that you were suspected at all.
Feanor of the Peredhil - Controversial and confusing, but a delight, as always. It would have been nice if you could have continued to create your unique form of chaos for a bit longer. You realise that you were killed because the 'Man-Wolves' thought you a Wolf ...
Rune Son of Bjarne - Didn't get much of a chance to get going in this one, I'm afraid. Nice to see that you (and TGWBS) made Durelin blush with your votes for her though ...

Oh, and as for that grammar debacle ...

Originally Posted by Mith-nit-pick-alwen

When Sauce says : you must choose each day one of your number to face death and continue doing so until you have found all of the murderous fiends. Some among you who are innocent will die at the hands of their companions, I am not sure if he means that the innocent will be lynched by other innocents, and it should have read your companions (to my picky linguistician's brain) - or that the "their" does indeed refer to the "fiends" of the previous sentence" some innocents will be killed by associates of the wolves but not the wolves themselves.

Bah! The “their” referred to the “some”, ie those who would be lynched - only a proportion of those being addressed (the "you"). Perfectly good grammar! And what’s a linguistician anyway?

Looking forward to seeing some more of the Wolfish discussions ...

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by The Saucepan Man

Night 5

The Black Claw Wolves hunted Boro

Did you forget something from here or am I confused about what happened? Like "the shapeshifter hunted Nogrod" as well going on during the Night5?

I did give The Sixth a free choice of a kill that Night as I was away - I myself would have strongly objected to killing (hunting) Boro as we didn't know of his powers and he would have been an easy (well... easier) lynch the next Day as with either Volo or Morm something like a case should have to be produced... and with Boro it would have been there already as "the wolves were obviously gone" but the killing still continued.

But this far I have thought that Boro indeed hunted me and that's the reason why we both were dead in the morning.

~*~

The thief was an excellent role! It's kind of sad Dury did not get to play it longer...

The same holds with the Priestess. It would have been a great role later in the game. Sorry Kath but we didn't know that...

EDIT: Xd with Spm

[Isabellkya]

That was a good game; thanks SPM!!

Yeah that first day vote for Xyzzy; that was purely random. I honestly didn't really know what to do; I felt kind of pressured to make a vote. With really no clue as to who.

I have played many Werewolf games before, just not as analytical as this one. So it was a lot of fun.

Last saturday and sunday, did get really hectic; so technically I told the truth the entire time, and never really lied I think.

It makes perfect sense why Sixth and Nogrod were relentless in attacking me; they were wolves!! You little devils you.


Sorry I couldn't live longer teammates; I've just been evil for awhile now.. and it has been putting a strain on my brain muscles!!