Locations of certain places

[Iarwain Ben-adar]

1. Angband
2. Utumno
3. Lake Cuivienen (birthplace of the elves)
4. Two Lamps (before the Two Trees)
5. First realm of the Valar (before Valinor)

Those are what you want to know the location of. I will give a detailed description of the location pf each place.
Angband

-Location Angband is located in the Lands North of Beleriand. It is approximately 130-140 miles North-west of Thangorodrim. Directly to the north of Angband were the Ered Engrin (The Iron Mountains), and Dor Daidelos (the Regions of Everlasting cold). It is approximately 415-425 miles South-west from the Firth of Drengist (a Firth is a wide inlet of the sea). As the crow flies (a straight line) it is approximately 26-2800 miles from Aman.

Utumno

-Location utumno, also known as Udun, was directly north of the great lamp Illuin, which it was closer to compared to the Great lamp Ormal. Compared to ormal, it was still North of Ormal, just farther away compared to its relativeness to Illuin.. It is Protected by the iron mountains, and the Isle of Almaren is South of Utumno, in the Great Lake. Everything seemed to be in a line then. Here is the general order from Northernmost (top) to southernmost (bottom):
Utumno/Udun
Iron Mountains
Illuin
Great Lake
Isle of Almaren
More Great Lake
Ormal
And all around of this flat world was the doors of night.

Lake Cuivenien This lake is the awakening place of the Elves. It is located near the Inland sea of helcar (actually, near its Eastern bank). it is somewhere either in or on the edge of the wild wood, which is approximately 800-1000 miles from middle-earth, or Endor. The wild wood is, on its North-eastern edge, surrounded by the orocarni, the Mountains of the east. So, we can conclude several things about the location of this lake:
1) Located in or On the edge of the wild wood
2)surrounded by the Inland sea of helcar and the orocarni.
3)It is in the east
It is also in the Palisor, the Midmost region.

The locations of the two lamps is hinted at in my explanation of the location of Utumno.

I've had this map for a long time already. It helped me a lot when I tried to locate the places in the book. It looks exactly the same as how it is described. I hope it helps.

The link is: http://www.girsacrew.it/gdr/varie/ma...ppa%20arda.jpg

The coloured map is: http://www.anarda.net/tolkien/dibujo...arda_final.jpg

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

I have seen this map before and it always mannage to confuse me, I always imagined that Beleriand would be pretty much just west of Arnor. . .Is that really totaly wrong?

[davem]

Originally Posted by Finarfin

I've had this map for a long time already. It helped me a lot when I tried to locate the places in the book. It looks exactly the same as how it is described. I hope it helps.

The link is: http://www.girsacrew.it/gdr/varie/ma...ppa%20arda.jpg

The coloured map is: http://www.anarda.net/tolkien/dibujo...arda_final.jpg

Its completely 'wrong' - in the strict sense: The Shire did not exist at the same time as the Lamps, the Trees, or Numenor. However, it seems generally correct in terms of where places were/would have been in relation to each other. Forget things like scale though. Not too bad for orienting oneself

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

I think this map was made for orientation for the confused reader. . . A person that read LotR and then years later reads Silmarillion could easily get confused over where the different things are and not realise that they did not exist at the same time.

So yeah a map for orientation, but it still has me confused though. . .. about the whole ME vs Beleriand thing.

[Mithalwen]

Well the Ered Luin were the East of Beleriand. If you compare the LOTR maps with the Silamrillion you can see how the line of the mountains is the same - although broken of course by the Gulf of Lhun

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Mithalwen

Well the Ered Luin were the East of Beleriand. If you compare the LOTR maps with the Silamrillion you can see how the line of the mountains is the same - although broken of course by the Gulf of Lhun

Yup, and that's screwed up on the map as well. Beleriand is far too north. You may actually compare it, there are several points on the LotR map which you can compare to places in Beleriand (those islands west of Lune...)

[Mithalwen]

I am afraid I stopped trying to magnify that map when I saw Numenore wasn't star shaped...

[Galin]

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

... there are several points on the LotR map which you can compare to places in Beleriand (those islands west of Lune...)

What islands on The Lord of the Rings map

http://www.abo.fi/~jumppa/Pauline_Ba...ddle-earth.jpg

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by davem

Its completely 'wrong' - in the strict sense: The Shire did not exist at the same time as the Lamps, the Trees, or Numenor. However, it seems generally correct in terms of where places were/would have been in relation to each other. Forget things like scale though. Not too bad for orienting oneself

I think it's not only "wrong" in the sense you mean it, but "wrong" also in plain geographical sense. I think this one was used in David Day's "Tolkien's Bestiary", which itself is a book assuming too much of nothing (e.g. Tom Bombadil is a Maia, Goldberry as well, of course a Maia of Ulmo).

For example, on this map, if it were to be used like that, then Almaren was supposed to be in the middle of the world (there was no dividing of Middle-Earth and Valinor then), so it will be somewhere like Númenor on this map; while the Lamps were just directly north and south of it - so also around the "0° longitude", meaning the Northern lamp should have been marked somewhere near Helcaraxë. Just an example, thought, but what I'm saying is that even this map is nothing much. Fonstad's map I consider far more precise, it's more checked with the book.