The Scouring of the Shire

[MatthewM]

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

these guys just saved the world and all Gaffer Gamgee says is that it's about time that they are back and that they should've never sold Bag End. "And while you're been trapessing in foreign parts, chasing Black Men up mountains from what my Sam says, though what for he don't make clear, they've been and dug up Bagshot Row and ruined my taters!"

Simply, you cannot think of Thangorodrim when you read about the Shire.

Exactly. I found it funny when I read that, I love how Tolkien included it- it shows the true simplicity and ignorance of the hobbit folk. Although I have never read the Silm, it's a different time period with different characters and different stories. The Lord of the Rings comes full circle, as it started in The Shire, concludes with grown up hobbits defeating in The Shire what are practically pee-on's compared to what they faced out in the whole of M-e, and then the departure.

I agree with you Legate about Saruman. He is definitely an interesting character, and although I do not agree with the deeds he performed, his wit and personality are intriguing and entertaining to read.

[the phantom]

It's a great chapter. Pippin and Merry emerge for the first time as full fledged leaders and heroes. You may think that they had done that already in the story, but not really.

Sure, Pippin saved the Steward of Gondor, but Pippin didn't do it himself. He ran for help and then assisted Gandalf in saving the day.

Same with Merry. He didn't call out the WK and defeat him in a duel. He cowered in the background until he felt brave enough to stab him from behind.

Not that what they did wasn't awesome, don't get me wrong. But the fact is they were not standing up and calling the shots. They were just along for the ride, always under the care of someone else (Frodo, Gandalf, Aragorn, Boromir, the orcs, Treebeard, Theoden, Dernhelm, Denethor).

But when they got back to the Shire, they rose up and took the reins of leadership. There was no more running to others for orders or help. They decided what they'd do and then did it. Their experiences during their long adventure had prepared them for the role.

Don't you remember what Gandalf said as he parted with the Hobbits: he to see Bombadil and they to head home, " I am not coming to the Shire. It is no longer my place to set things to right. That is what you have been trained for, do you not yet understand?" Good job, Olorin. Cirdan trusting Narya to Gandalf was well done. The weilder of the secret flame of Anor kindled together brotherhood and trained the hobbits to take care of themselves after the Eldar departed.
As for the Gaffer: he symbolized(as did all hobbits). the humble and small folk, namely all of us, to be left alone to worry about those things important to us.

[Boo Radley]

Couple of things here...
I really, really liked this chapter and I agree with the concept of it showing growth and how the Hobbits have come full circle.
Also, I won't compare the battle fought in the Shire with any of the great battles fought throughout Middle Earth, simply because I think any comparisons don't work when you think about the... deeply personal nature of the battle for the Shire.
And I wouldn't define the Hobbits as ignorant. Innocent, surely, but not ignorant.
Finally, the first time I read it, I never, ever thought that Sauman was behind it all. I didn't think he'd had enough time to create as much of a mess as he did.

Obviously he was a workaholic.

[Morthoron]

The Lord of the Rings can be read and enjoyed on many levels, but from my point of view if one pares down the story to its most fundamental plotline, it is a coming of age tale concerning four naive young Hobbits, who must leave the natal womb of the Shire and travel forth as blind innocents into the cruel world, stumbling and erring along the way, but at last coming of age with the resolution and wisdom one can only accrue through experience and travail. In this context, the 'Scouring of the Shire' is not a denouement but a climax of the story, an integral link in the ongoing progression of Frodo, Sam, Merry and Pippin.

As others have mentioned in this thread (and Tolkien, through Gandalf's character, stated plainly), the Hobbits were literally trained throughout the trilogy to become the type of leaders and strategists that could instill rebellion and hope among their fellow Hobbits against the usurpation of Saruman and his gang of brigands -- without any outside assistance. This last point is very crucial, and it is certain from reading the text that Gandalf (with his penchant for prescience) understood this point and chose to leave the Hobbits before they entered the Shire for that very purpose. In a sense, Gandalf was much like a father figure who allowed his sons to become men (or adult Hobbits, if you prefer). Certainly, Frodo or one of his companions could have sent word to Elrond, Gandalf or Cirdan and received aid that would have quickly crushed Sharkey and his bullies, but as adults they took responsibility for the situation based on their experiences of the year previous.

A few of you may have read my tirades regarding P.J. Jackson's misinterpretation of the Lord of the Rings, and although I understand the need for time compression (particularly in a project so vast), I believe P.J. missed the boat by undermining a central plot point. There is also the shock value that was eliminated when the Hobbits discovered that war and evil, even of such a petty nature, had consumed even their pastoral and backwater patch of Middle-earth. The Hobbit characters were in a sense deprived of the opportunity to apply their wisdom and valor to defend their homes. Also, Saruman and Grima's deaths at Orthanc in the extended film version was such a waste of drama and intrigue, don't you think?

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Morthoron

Also, Saruman and Grima's deaths at Orthanc in the extended film version was such a waste of drama and intrigue, don't you think?

It's such a waste of Saruman and Gríma, in my opinion...