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#1 |
Mellifluous Maia
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: A glade open to the stars, deep in Nan Elmoth
Posts: 3,489
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Fair enough, Rune, but what about the opposite situation? If I, for instance, happened to randomly swallow a Silmaril, and (evil as I am), went running randomly in the direction of Doriath looking for water to relieve the burning, but with no particular fate on me that I should enter that realm, would I manage to get through the girdle?
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#2 | ||
Eagle of the Star
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Sarmisegethuza
Posts: 1,058
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"May the wicked become good. May the good obtain peace. May the peaceful be freed from bonds. May the freed set others free." |
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#3 | ||
Mellifluous Maia
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: A glade open to the stars, deep in Nan Elmoth
Posts: 3,489
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#4 | |
Odinic Wanderer
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Anyways unless you are willing to bite of Berens hand and enter a mortal combat with Huan, then no :P Actually for me the main thing is that the faith of Arda rests in the silmarils and are bound to their faith, which means that when the fell beast Rikae swallows the silmaril she becomes a part of that faith. . . .if she was not already in advance. |
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#5 |
Mellifluous Maia
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: A glade open to the stars, deep in Nan Elmoth
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IF you mean the fate of Arda, you may just be on to something there, Rune.
However, does this mean that Morgoth, having the Silmarils, could just stroll into Doriath any time he wanted? There is more to it that a simplistic "get a Silmaril, be more powerful than anybody" dynamic at play, I think. Maybe even a sense of the Silmarils themselves having, in a way, a will of their own, as the one ring does? Or not so much a will, but a destiny? Last edited by Rikae; 07-09-2007 at 09:45 AM. |
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#6 | |
Loremaster of Annúminas
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 2,330
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#7 |
Eagle of the Star
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Sarmisegethuza
Posts: 1,058
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My point was that Melkor did not and could not have prepared the strife between the elves to the level of detail that was mentioned; he sowed seeds of evil, which later developed rather independently. As far as the strife between elves and dwarves, again, I see no evidence that Morgoth planned this through Hurin. Hurin was an instrument in furthering Morgoth's hatred for Men and Elves; the fact that the Nauglamir that he recovered proved later to be a cause of Doriath's demise was not and could not have been planned by Morgoth. The best that Hurin achieved inside the girdle, in accordance with what Morgoth planned, was to insult the king. But even that failed rather miserably, since the king restrained himself and Melian freed Hurin.
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"May the wicked become good. May the good obtain peace. May the peaceful be freed from bonds. May the freed set others free." |
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#8 | ||
Mellifluous Maia
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: A glade open to the stars, deep in Nan Elmoth
Posts: 3,489
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Last edited by Rikae; 07-10-2007 at 08:27 AM. |
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#9 | ||
Eagle of the Star
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Sarmisegethuza
Posts: 1,058
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"May the wicked become good. May the good obtain peace. May the peaceful be freed from bonds. May the freed set others free." |
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#10 | |
Shade of Carn Dûm
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 274
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He looked down at her in the twilight and it seemed to him that the lines of grief and cruel hardship were smoothed away. "She was not conquered," he said |
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#11 | |
Odinic Wanderer
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I have never said that that you get more powerful by getting a Silmaril. . .you are making this up. |
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#12 | |||
Mellifluous Maia
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: A glade open to the stars, deep in Nan Elmoth
Posts: 3,489
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Raynor said: Quote:
Last edited by Rikae; 07-09-2007 at 08:41 PM. |
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#13 |
Odinic Wanderer
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very simple because Morgoth alone of the valar knew fear! He might have been mighty but Fingolfin alone wounded him, he would not have been able to take Doriath unharmed.
about Rainor's quote: Well, it does not say that the silmaril transfers the power to the holder. . .as I see it Carcharoth was an instrument used for bringing the silmaril to Doriath (and some other stuff). The reason Carcharoth can enter is not that he has become more powerful than Melian, but because the Faith of the Silmaril is greater than her enchantment. |
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#14 | |
Loremaster of Annúminas
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 2,330
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#15 | |
Mellifluous Maia
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: A glade open to the stars, deep in Nan Elmoth
Posts: 3,489
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Not, of course, that Melian "won", but Doriath was successfully protected until she ceased to do so; and I agree with your post above - Morgoth wouldn't have ignored Doriath simply because it was no threat to him. I also had the impression Doriath was the target he intended to use Hurin against; though the ultimate course of events would not have been one he foresaw, that doesn't change his intent; and the fact that he would have to use such elaborate methods speaks in favor of Melian being very powerful indeed. Last edited by Rikae; 07-10-2007 at 07:45 AM. |
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