Arwen vs. Galadriel - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Legate of Amon Lanc · 07-11-2007, 02:58 PM

We, simple once-eastern-bloc folk, know Maggie only from second-hand rumour (twisted?) and from the songs of Roger Waters, therefore I will not even come to think of her when I imagine Galadriel's possible misuse of power... however, as Six said, there is that terrible image of Galadriel as temptress able to control everything she wants. However, the very important thing on her is that she rejected that choice - while the choice depended only on herself. In that I find, so to say, some sort of redemptive power, or how should I describe it. Some sort of an example, you know. I don't know, but I find that aspect very important. A beautiful lady who at first wants, but later rejects the power (in this case of the Ring, leading even to the rulership of whole Middle-Earth) is really stunning character, literally even more interesting than just someone who does not want the power in the first place (thus has it easy to reject it).

But I think we are getting faar off-topic here. This is exactly what Finduilas said about discussing characters and not looks. We should indeed discuss just who is the fairest. And even considering all I have said above about Galadriel's character, I still find her the one more beautiful just for the sake of it.

Finduilas · 07-11-2007, 05:45 PM

This seems to me as if it aught to be a poll.

Is there any Skwerl for off topicness?

William Cloud Hicklin · 07-11-2007, 08:51 PM

For myself, I never found Cate especially beautiful, and Liv is OK but no great shakes. I propose:

G- Grace Kelly or Ingrid Bergman
A- Hedy Lamarr or Liz Taylor (or Isabella if you cast her mama as G)

Rune Son of Bjarne · 07-11-2007, 10:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Finduilas

This seems to me as if it aught to be a poll.

Is there any Skwerl for off topicness?

I think it is an off-topic owl. ..

MatthewM · 07-11-2007, 11:21 PM

Just wanted to point out that I was referring more towards your own image of the characters from the books than the movies, but I see no wrong in comparing (through personal preference and opinion) the beauty of Liv vs. Cate - in which case I would have to go with Liv. Cate is not too far behind, however.

Estelyn Telcontar · 07-12-2007, 06:37 AM

Tolkien tells us the basic facts about the two ladies, but beauty is a factor that can't be described. Therefore, when reading the book, we can only see them through the eyes of the other characters. The words of the humblest of the Fellowship, Samwise, describing Galadriel, have always fascinated me:

Quote:

Beautiful she is, sir! Lovely! Sometimes like a great tree in flower, sometimes like a white daffydowndilly, small and slender like. Hard as di'monds, soft as moonlight. Warm as sunlight, cold as frost in the stars. Proud and far-off as a snow-mountain, and as merry as any lass I ever saw with flowers in her hair in springtime.
TT, 'The Window on the West'

I rather agree with those who think that comparing the two is like apples and oranges, but if I had to choose, it would probably be Galadriel because of the above passage.

Eomer of the Rohirrim · 07-12-2007, 08:07 AM

If, in the Silmarillion, Tolkien says that Galadriel was fairest of the House of Finwë, then that suggests that there must be a definite answer out there somewhere, and that it is not a matter of different opinions. Tolkien seems to say that the two are equally fair when he makes the analogy between morning and evening, so that would be my answer: equals.

(Although that raises the issue of who wrote the Silmarillion!)

Knight of Gondor · 07-12-2007, 10:39 AM

I honestly do not hold up either actress from the movies as a model of beauty. (Now Miranda Otto on the other hand...)

In the book, it's hard to say, having not seen either of them. I am sure that many of the impressions (such as of Eomer and Gimli) come not so much from appearance as from presence.

Galadriel had issues of her own from earlier Ages, and is obviously made of sterner stuff than Arwen. As a Ringbearer, her responsibility and experience was so much greater than Arwen, who was but a maiden of Imladris. She bore no Ring, nor responsibilities of leadership.

Arwen's love and devotion for Aragorn is to be admired, although her actions after the death of King Ellesar are a bit selfish. (Abandoning her children to wander Lothlorien in grief.)

MatthewM · 07-12-2007, 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Knight of Gondor

Arwen's love and devotion for Aragorn is to be admired, although her actions after the death of King Ellesar are a bit selfish. (Abandoning her children to wander Lothlorien in grief.)

Were they really, though? I do not see her actions as selfish.

That would be a good question for a new topic, indeed.

Knight of Gondor · 07-12-2007, 09:54 PM

I was certain it had been already discussed, under a title like "Arwen not a good mom?" but a forum and a google search did not turn up anything.

07-11-2007, 02:58 PM	#1
Legate of Amon Lanc A Voice That Gainsayeth Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: In that far land beyond the Sea Posts: 7,431	We, simple once-eastern-bloc folk, know Maggie only from second-hand rumour (twisted?) and from the songs of Roger Waters, therefore I will not even come to think of her when I imagine Galadriel's possible misuse of power... however, as Six said, there is that terrible image of Galadriel as temptress able to control everything she wants. However, the very important thing on her is that she rejected that choice - while the choice depended only on herself. In that I find, so to say, some sort of redemptive power, or how should I describe it. Some sort of an example, you know. I don't know, but I find that aspect very important. A beautiful lady who at first wants, but later rejects the power (in this case of the Ring, leading even to the rulership of whole Middle-Earth) is really stunning character, literally even more interesting than just someone who does not want the power in the first place (thus has it easy to reject it). But I think we are getting faar off-topic here. This is exactly what Finduilas said about discussing characters and not looks. We should indeed discuss just who is the fairest. And even considering all I have said above about Galadriel's character, I still find her the one more beautiful just for the sake of it. __________________ "Should the story say 'he ate bread,' the dramatic producer can only show 'a piece of bread' according to his taste or fancy, but the hearer of the story will think of bread in general and picture it in some form of his own." -On Fairy-Stories

07-11-2007, 05:45 PM	#2
Finduilas Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Home. Where rolling green hills and clear rivers are practically my backyard. Posts: 595	This seems to me as if it aught to be a poll. Is there any Skwerl for off topicness? __________________ One (1) book of rules and traffic regulations, which may not be bent or broken. ~ The Phantom Tollbooth

07-11-2007, 11:21 PM	#5
MatthewM Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: New York Posts: 628	Just wanted to point out that I was referring more towards your own image of the characters from the books than the movies, but I see no wrong in comparing (through personal preference and opinion) the beauty of Liv vs. Cate - in which case I would have to go with Liv. Cate is not too far behind, however. __________________ "Loud and clear it sounds in the valleys of the hills...and then let all the foes of Gondor flee!" -Boromir, The Fellowship of the Ring

07-12-2007, 08:07 AM	#7
Eomer of the Rohirrim Auspicious Wraith Join Date: May 2002 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 4,859	If, in the Silmarillion, Tolkien says that Galadriel was fairest of the House of Finwë, then that suggests that there must be a definite answer out there somewhere, and that it is not a matter of different opinions. Tolkien seems to say that the two are equally fair when he makes the analogy between morning and evening, so that would be my answer: equals. (Although that raises the issue of who wrote the Silmarillion!) __________________ Los Ingobernables de Harlond

07-12-2007, 10:39 AM	#8
Knight of Gondor Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Kentucky Posts: 744	I honestly do not hold up either actress from the movies as a model of beauty. (Now Miranda Otto on the other hand...) In the book, it's hard to say, having not seen either of them. I am sure that many of the impressions (such as of Eomer and Gimli) come not so much from appearance as from presence. Galadriel had issues of her own from earlier Ages, and is obviously made of sterner stuff than Arwen. As a Ringbearer, her responsibility and experience was so much greater than Arwen, who was but a maiden of Imladris. She bore no Ring, nor responsibilities of leadership. Arwen's love and devotion for Aragorn is to be admired, although her actions after the death of King Ellesar are a bit selfish. (Abandoning her children to wander Lothlorien in grief.) __________________ Eagerly awaiting the REAL Return of the King - Jesus Christ! Revelation 19:11-16

07-11-2007, 08:51 PM	#3
William Cloud Hicklin Loremaster of Annúminas Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 2,330	For myself, I never found Cate especially beautiful, and Liv is OK but no great shakes. I propose: G- Grace Kelly or Ingrid Bergman A- Hedy Lamarr or Liz Taylor (or Isabella if you cast her mama as G)

07-12-2007, 09:54 PM	#10
Knight of Gondor Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Kentucky Posts: 744	I was certain it had been already discussed, under a title like "Arwen not a good mom?" but a forum and a google search did not turn up anything. __________________ Eagerly awaiting the REAL Return of the King - Jesus Christ! Revelation 19:11-16