Sauron vs. Your Mama - A Discussion of Power in Middle-earth - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

davem · 08-05-2007, 12:03 PM

So is it possible that Eru could be imperfect, even evil, according to human standards of Good & Evil? If not, then Eru corresponds to what we would consider The Good (in M-e terms). Eru is Good - according to the M-e definition of Good (infinite Compassion, absolute love - not to mention omniscience, omnipotence). Therefore we have Eru, & we have a moral value system which defines Good as 'X' & according to that moral value system Eru ticks all the boxes for 'X' & is therefore Good.

How would we be able to say 'Eru is Good' if we didn't measure him against our criteria for Good & Evil? If Eru were to do something which we consider 'evil' - ie, if he was to commit an (on the face of it) 'Morgothian' act & torture & corrupt an innocent being would we be justified in calling him 'Evil' because he behaved like the living manifestation of Evil in M-e? And if we, because of our creaturely limitations must not judge Eru to be 'evil' simply because he committed what seemed to us an evil act, how can we justify judging Morgoth evil for committing exactly the same act?

We as readers don't judge Morgoth evil simply because Tolkien says he is. We adjudge him evil because of his acts. The idea that both Eru & Morgoth could commit the same 'evil' act & one (Morgoth) be judged 'evil' for committing it, but the other (Eru) be beyond judgement is, to me, not logical.

08-05-2007, 12:03 PM	#24
davem Illustrious Ulair Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: In the home of lost causes, and forsaken beliefs, and unpopular names,and impossible loyalties Posts: 4,240	So is it possible that Eru could be imperfect, even evil, according to human standards of Good & Evil? If not, then Eru corresponds to what we would consider The Good (in M-e terms). Eru is Good - according to the M-e definition of Good (infinite Compassion, absolute love - not to mention omniscience, omnipotence). Therefore we have Eru, & we have a moral value system which defines Good as 'X' & according to that moral value system Eru ticks all the boxes for 'X' & is therefore Good. How would we be able to say 'Eru is Good' if we didn't measure him against our criteria for Good & Evil? If Eru were to do something which we consider 'evil' - ie, if he was to commit an (on the face of it) 'Morgothian' act & torture & corrupt an innocent being would we be justified in calling him 'Evil' because he behaved like the living manifestation of Evil in M-e? And if we, because of our creaturely limitations must not judge Eru to be 'evil' simply because he committed what seemed to us an evil act, how can we justify judging Morgoth evil for committing exactly the same act? We as readers don't judge Morgoth evil simply because Tolkien says he is. We adjudge him evil because of his acts. The idea that both Eru & Morgoth could commit the same 'evil' act & one (Morgoth) be judged 'evil' for committing it, but the other (Eru) be beyond judgement is, to me, not logical. __________________ “Everything was an object. If you killed a dwarf you could use it as a weapon – it was no different to other large heavy objects."