Okay, so what do you think NOW?

[Finduilas]

Originally Posted by Meriadoc1961

Thanks for the welcome back! It has been a few years since I last posted before doing so early this morning.

Okay, I will state from the start that I own all three DVDs. I enjoy watching them, but when I see them now I feel as if I was "suckered" into acceptance by being overwhelmed with how WELL Peter Jackson did in his recreation of the the Shire, Hobbiton, and Bag End. In my opinion, they were done so magnificently that I was so taken by that wondrous moment as Gandalf arrived by pony trap and Hobbiton was revealed so perfectly that I was willing to just accept everything from that moment on. And I did.

It seems to me that the further they went along with the story the more liberties he took with Tolkien's material. I loathe the way he had Gandalf beating Denethor with his staff. I do not like the way in which Theoden was portrayed as being somewhat jealous of Aragorn, and that Theoden was reluctant to go to Minas Tirith, wherein the book he said he would go to help, even if he did not feel any threat himself. I can not stand the way they had Treebeard appear to be stupid and having to be tricked by Merry and Pippin to enter the war. I did not like the psychotic portrayal of Galadriel. I did not like at all the treatment they had of Frodo choosing Gollum over Sam. But most of all, I detest the way in which the superb honor demonstrated by Faramir in the book is totally lacking in the film. He was not in the least bit tempted by the lure of the ring in the book, and the manner in which he was loved by the people of Gondor is also totally missing from the movie. He just did not come across in the film as the highly honorable individual that I had always taken him to be from the book.

Merry

Well said. I agree with you in all your points, and even though few people mention Galdalf hitting Denethor, I was always bothered that he hit a defenceless man, not only once but three times.

I was also disapointed with how much screen time the battle at Helms Deep got. Sure it was well done, but I wish some of that time had been spent on other things.

[TheGreatElvenWarrior]

Originally Posted by Finduilas

Well said. I agree with you in all your points, and even though few people mention Galdalf hitting Denethor, I was always bothered that he hit a defenceless man, not only once but three times.

I was also disapointed with how much screen time the battle at Helms Deep got. Sure it was well done, but I wish some of that time had been spent on other things.

Well I think that Gandalf hitting Denethor was pretty funny and he wasn't exactly defenseless since he did have a sword. And I was mad too for how much time Helm's Deep had in TTT, I wanted more Hobbits...well I kinda have an obsession with Hobbits, ut thats another story...
I like the movies and still like the movies, I think that they have a few...well a lot of changed things, but they're still darn well good adaptions... Well I can't say I like the movies I LOVE them...
I'M RAMBLING PEOPLE I'M STOPPING NOW!

[Meriadoc1961]

I, too, like the movies, but in all sincerity I believe a person who had not read the books first would probably like the movies better than those of us who read the books first.

[Knight of Gondor]

There were plenty of bones to pick with PJ's rendition. The radical departure from Faramir's true character. Frodo's portrayal as a simpering weenie. Gandalf smacking Denethor in the head. Aragorn's reluctance. Gandalf's humbling before the Witchking. Denethor's flaming plunge of death. Frodo telling Sam to leave. Sam leaving. Legolas's brilliant wit ("A diversion"), Gimli's use for comic relief, Arwen's fate suddenly and inexplicably being "tied to the Ring"...etc.

Yet, despite all my intellectual quarrels with plot differences, the movies (especially Return of the King) stunned and amazed me. They blew me away when I saw them in theaters, and at home. I just recently completed watching the trilogy again (with a younger brother who was finally old enough to see the movies) and I have yet to see any movie that compares. The glory of so many moments -- the whole battle of Pelennor (especially Theoden's speech and the Ride of the Rohirrim) Sam and Frodo at Mt. Doom, Aragorn's "For Frodo" death charge, Gandalf telling Pippin about the Grey Havens, the very end of the film at the Havens (which chokes me up just thinking about) -- all of this redeems the film and more.

[Sauron the White]

Regarding the Jackson portrayal of Galadriel in the Mirror scene with Frodo -
This direct from the writing of JRRT himself.

"She lifted up her hand and from the ring that she wore there issued a great light that illuminated her alone and left all else dark. She stood before Frodo seeming now tall beyond measurement, and beautiful beyond enduring, terrible and worshipful."

The words Blanchett speaks seem to be taken directly from the paragraph that precedes this description.

I do not know what film others saw, or what version of LOTR others have read, but it seems to me that Jackson nailed this scene as written by Tolkien himself.

[Folwren]

I have always liked that scene with Galadriel. All, except, her delivery of the line "I know what it is you saw." But, ignoring that...

The part where she tells Frodo what she would be like with the Ring...what others describe as psychotic, or whatever, has always stirred me deeply. I like it. Most everyone else has told me that they don't. *shrugs* Oh well.

-- Folwren

[Finduilas]

I agree with Folwren and Sauron the White on Galadriel.

I didn't like how they did Bilbo's speach at his party. I think it would have been so funny/fun if they had done it more booklike. Of course, the way they did it, Gandalf wasn't in the mix which tied in more later, but they could have had Bilbo continue, and just leave out Gandalfs flash.

It seems that some people disliked the scene in TT with Boromir and Faramir in Osgiliath. Despite some of its problems, I liked it because...
1. Since they twisted Faramir, it was nice to see the reason.
2. It showed a great love between the brothers.

[TheGreatElvenWarrior]

Originally Posted by Meriadoc1961

I, too, like the movies, but in all sincerity I believe a person who had not read the books first would probably like the movies better than those of us who read the books first.

I saw the movies first but, I like the books better...Actually I read the books because my friend was whining and complaining because PJ left the Scouring of The Shire out, so I was curious and read the books and love LotR even more than before. The books and the movies make me cry, but the books make me cry even more. Well I'm done now.

My 100th post!!!!

[Elladan and Elrohir]

For me, well, I'm suckered, I'm hooked, to use words from previous posts.

I get to have my cake and eat it, as far as the films go: My love for the books makes the movies seem that much richer and more glorious, and yet I still enjoy them as separate entities from Tolkien's masterpiece, unworthy of comparison with it in the end.

It's been said before, but I'll mention it again: Jackson brought Middle-earth to life. Is it Tolkien's Middle-earth? No, not really; it's Jackson's Middle-earth. Very similar in some areas, very different in a lot of others. But it is a vision that PJ has realized. He has not cut out a carbon copy of the Professor's work, nor has he gone too far (for the most part) in making Middle-earth his own.

I realize that last statement, at least, may face (and does face) vehement disagreement among some on this board. But that's my perspective.

Alatar continues to hope for a remake in 20 years. I'm divided. On the one hand, plot-wise and character-wise, I see a LOT of different ways the filmmakers could have approached it and made it something different, but perhaps far better. But on the other hand, the visual realization of Middle-earth is so strong that I don't know whether any director will ever dare to try to come up with a new one. PJ created, in my mind, the definitive Bag End, Dwarrowdelf, Helm's Deep, Minas Tirith, among many others. A new director would have to go in a radically different direction visually (and thus stray significantly from Tolkien in that regard, and perhaps lose the fans immediately) in order to be perceived as being original.

So yeah, now I pretty much see them as my favorite films of all time. Not that I've really seen very many, especially great ones.

[alatar]

Originally Posted by Elladan and Elrohir

Alatar continues to hope for a remake in 20 years. I'm divided.

You must be young... Back in the day there were no cell phones, internet, digital pretty much anything, and so I figure by the time my kids hit mid-life, movies may become more interactive in ways we cannot imagine today.

It's not that I don't appreciate the films; I've just seen too many changes to think that PJ's version is the end-all be-all.

[Finduilas]

Yes, PJ did bring Middle Earth to life. His sets were awesome. And I don't think that many could outdo them. But he could have done at least a 100% better at the movie itself. I don't think he could have easily bettered his sets. Not unless he spent 20 years doing it. But I still stick to everything I said, he messed up terribly on many parts. (And not so terribly, but still badly, on another many parts.)