Gandalf Vs. The Witch King

[Finduilas]

On Merry not needing an enchanted blade, someone told me once that Merry, and for the same reason Eowyn, was able to kill the Nazgul because he wasn't a man. He, or she (I can't remember who I was talking to), thought that when the Witchking said no man can kill me, that he meant that only women or other races could.

Just thought I would add another explaination. Maybe that's what PJ thought

Originally Posted by Finduilas

On Merry not needing an enchanted blade, someone told me once that Merry, and for the same reason Eowyn, was able to kill the Nazgul because he wasn't a man. He, or she (I can't remember who I was talking to), thought that when the Witchking said no man can kill me, that he meant that only women or other races could.

Just thought I would add another explaination. Maybe that's what PJ thought

Does that mean an Oliphaunt could kill the Witch King? The theory is only a prophecy, not a fact.

A woman was needed in the story to give some noble credibility to women in Middle Earth. Otherwise women would be seen as the maids & housewives, & not the brave, noble cavalry sort which few could yet demonstrate. The killing of the Witch King in the manner of a woman also makes him look very foolsh of his overconfidence, even severely over-rated as an opponent. A good example of machiavellianism.

[Finduilas]

Originally Posted by Mansun

Does that mean an Oliphaunt could kill the Witch King? The theory is only a prophecy, not a fact.

I know. But you can't argue with some people. He held to it, and I didn't have a book with me so I couldn't prove him wrong.

[alatar]

Remember when (at least in the books) Gandalf states that a "power" exists in the Shire as well? Methinks that Hobbits create a zone of chaos wherever they go. Look what happened when one or more of the four were present:

• Five Nazgul fail at Weathertop.
• A Ranger is caught off his guard.
• Nine Nazgul drown.
• Fight ensues at the "Last Homely House."
• Snowy mountaintop explodes.
• Cave troll falls.
• Dwarven bridgework collapses.
• Balrog fails.
• Gandalf falls.
• Dwarf caught off his guard.
• Steward's son dies.
• Uruks fail.
• Gollum is captured (think about it).
• Other Steward's son loses mind.
• Winged Nazgul fails with Ring in plain sight.
• Orthanc falls.
• Saruman dies.
• Shelob fails.
• Fight ensues in Tower of Cirith Ungol.
• Gollum falls.
• Rohirrim become blinded to female warrior in their midst in plain sight.
• Mumakil fail.
• Witch-King bests Gandalf.
• Steward takes flying leap.
• Minas Tirith almost overrun.
• Aragorn gets trampled by Battle Troll.
• Sauron falls.
• Pippin catches bouquet.

And so on. The reason that book Aragorn quarantines the Shire is not for the benefit for the Little Folk, but to protect the rest of us from them.

Originally Posted by alatar

Remember when (at least in the books) Gandalf states that a "power" exists in the Shire as well? Methinks that Hobbits create a zone of chaos wherever they go. Look what happened when one or more of the four were present:

• Five Nazgul fail at Weathertop.
• A Ranger is caught off his guard.
• Nine Nazgul drown.
• Fight ensues at the "Last Homely House."
• Snowy mountaintop explodes.
• Cave troll falls.
• Dwarven bridgework collapses.
• Balrog fails.
• Gandalf falls.
• Dwarf caught off his guard.
• Steward's son dies.
• Uruks fail.
• Gollum is captured (think about it).
• Other Steward's son loses mind.
• Winged Nazgul fails with Ring in plain sight.
• Orthanc falls.
• Saruman dies.
• Shelob fails.
• Fight ensues in Tower of Cirith Ungol.
• Gollum falls.
• Rohirrim become blinded to female warrior in their midst in plain sight.
• Mumakil fail.
• Witch-King bests Gandalf.
• Steward takes flying leap.
• Minas Tirith almost overrun.
• Aragorn gets trampled by Battle Troll.
• Sauron falls.
• Pippin catches bouquet.

And so on. The reason that book Aragorn quarantines the Shire is not for the benefit for the Little Folk, but to protect the rest of us from them.

This could be because without mighty creatures like Gandalf in the world, Hobbits would not be able to exist for very long. Great powers, such as Gandalf & Aragorn, as well as High Elves, are drawn to the Shire in the knowledge that it needs protection. Even the Nine Riders did not readily wade through the Shire as openly as, say, when the Hobbits were attacked at Weathertop. The Shire is symbolic of everything that is good of Middle Earth, & if it were to fall, most likely Middle Earth would fall with it.

A very good point, but a little astray from the thread though.

[alatar]

Originally Posted by Mansun

A very good point, but a little astray from the thread though.

Maybe. Just showing how one can observe 'A;' observe 'B;' notice that when B occurs A is always in the vicinity and therefore conclude that A is a possible catalyst for B. They may or may not be related, but you can post without exploring the true relationship.

[William Cloud Hicklin]

On Merry not needing an enchanted blade, someone told me once that Merry, and for the same reason Eowyn, was able to kill the Nazgul because he wasn't a man. He, or she (I can't remember who I was talking to), thought that when the Witchking said no man can kill me, that he meant that only women or other races could.

But remember what Tolkien says: "No other blade could have dealt that foe a wound so bitter, cleaving the undead flesh, breaking the spell that bound his unseen sinews to his will..."

The prophecy "not by the hand of man shall he fall" was made by Glorfindel at Fornost, a thousand years before. But, interestingly, long after the sword had been made.

[Meriadoc1961]

Originally Posted by alatar

Remember when (at least in the books) Gandalf states that a "power" exists in the Shire as well? Methinks that Hobbits create a zone of chaos wherever they go. Look what happened when one or more of the four were present:

• Five Nazgul fail at Weathertop.
• A Ranger is caught off his guard.
• Nine Nazgul drown.
• Fight ensues at the "Last Homely House."
• Snowy mountaintop explodes.
• Cave troll falls.
• Dwarven bridgework collapses.
• Balrog fails.
• Gandalf falls.
• Dwarf caught off his guard.
• Steward's son dies.
• Uruks fail.
• Gollum is captured (think about it).
• Other Steward's son loses mind.
• Winged Nazgul fails with Ring in plain sight.
• Orthanc falls.
• Saruman dies.
• Shelob fails.
• Fight ensues in Tower of Cirith Ungol.
• Gollum falls.
• Rohirrim become blinded to female warrior in their midst in plain sight.
• Mumakil fail.
• Witch-King bests Gandalf.
• Steward takes flying leap.
• Minas Tirith almost overrun.
• Aragorn gets trampled by Battle Troll.
• Sauron falls.
• Pippin catches bouquet.

And so on. The reason that book Aragorn quarantines the Shire is not for the benefit for the Little Folk, but to protect the rest of us from them.

That may have been a bit off-topic, but it was hilarious, nonetheless!