An Elf with shapeshifting ability? Why?

How does killing Evil through stealth bring dishonor? Still, if I remember correctly, when they hewed the Silmaril from Morgoth's crown, the host of Angband was upon them anyway.

Furthermore, if Luthien's lot was to become mortal, would this not be a sufficient punishment if she has killed Morgoth in his sleep?

[William Cloud Hicklin]

Luthien does appear to have preternatural abilities with shapes and illusions (don't forget her hair/sleeping cloak)- but almost certainly this relates to her Maiarin blood. Note that Finrod 'by his arts' effectively disguised Beren's company as Orcs- but they at least were humanoid!

Ainur in general had the ability to put on and take off visible forms at will. This ability was limited of a purpose with the Istari (Wizards), who were a special case, actually incarnate in hroar like the Eruhini. It also is true that persistence in evil binds an Ainu- even Morgoth- to one physical form; which moreover tends with time to manifest rather than disguise the underlying ugliness. Hence Morgoth from the time of his meeting with Ungoliant was fixed in the form of "the tyrant of Utumno: a dark Lord, tall and terrible," and until the end kept the wounds he got from Fingolfin and Thorondor. Likewise Sauron after the Fall of Numenor was never again able to wear the beautiful disguise of 'Annatar.'

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Meneltur

How does killing Evil through stealth bring dishonor?

I am pretty sure it's not the way things go in Middle-Earth. Imagine Gandalf or Galadriel killing Saruman in his sleep. Even Théoden won't kill the king of Haradrim or Aragorn won't kill the Mouth of Sauron* in their sleep; they'd first at last wake them up if they stumbled upon them, let them get weapons, and then fight.

Originally Posted by Meneltur

Still, if I remember correctly, when they hewed the Silmaril from Morgoth's crown, the host of Angband was upon them anyway.

Of course, but they had the time to escape. Although it's possible that if they killed Morgoth, there will be total chaos and they'd have chance to get away (we know that it goes that way from other examples, like the escape of the Fellowship from Moria).

Originally Posted by Meneltur

Furthermore, if Luthien's lot was to become mortal, would this not be a sufficient punishment if she has killed Morgoth in his sleep?

Punishment is something you receive for something you did. But the fact that Morgoth was asleep has nothing to do with the fact of becoming mortal.


*Not even while awake (pun intended)

Hey, I want to thank everyone who has posted here so far on this thread. You have helped a lot. Things are a lot clearer now.

Best regards

[Lord Melkor]

Of course, the question is whether 'killing' Morgoth's physical form would have any longterm benefit. Though Morgoth was thoroughly incarnate by the time Beren and Luthien came to Angband to steal the Silmaril, he had infused Arda with so much of his power that the whole of Arda basically served as his very own One Ring. As such Morgoth could never be permanently defeated until the end of the world when Arda Marred would be remade and slaying his physical form would have no long term effects, except giving Elves and Men a brief respite while Morgoth fashioned himself a new shape.

[Raynor]

I wouldn't discard the moral factor that his death would have upon his subjects and enemies. There is also the diminishing of power that comes with building a new body, and I think this would have affected Melkor too (it affected Sauron, and Sauron was said to be greater in the Second Age than Melkor than Melkor at the end of the first one). All in all, it would have been a PR disaster

[Alfirin]

My Silmarillion is a bit rusty, But doent's Luthien's shape changing ability derive entirely from the fact that she is wrapped in Thuringwethil's shaping cloak/skin? if this is the case wouldn't anyone who had the cloak be able to shapeshift?

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Alfirin

My Silmarillion is a bit rusty, But doent's Luthien's shape changing ability derive entirely from the fact that she is wrapped in Thuringwethil's shaping cloak/skin? if this is the case wouldn't anyone who had the cloak be able to shapeshift?

Indeed It is true that maybe not every peasant would be able to do that, but who knows? Bless you for mentioning this.

*walks away, probably going to check if sclerosis is a serious problem in this age*

Originally Posted by Alfirin

My Silmarillion is a bit rusty, But doent's Luthien's shape changing ability derive entirely from the fact that she is wrapped in Thuringwethil's shaping cloak/skin? if this is the case wouldn't anyone who had the cloak be able to shapeshift?

IIRC correctly, Luthien's ability to shift shape does indeed come from her Maian ancestry. This was ability shared by all the Ainur, and examples of it abound. Note Sauron's ability to take the form of a werewolf and Olorin's practice of walking among Elves and Men unseen or in shape like one of them during the First Age. Luthien, as noted by another poster, probably would not have all of Melian's powers, but she would certainly would be expected to have powers beyond those of any other Children of Iluvatar.