WW XXXIX - Do Werebalrogs have wings?

[Macalaure]

They killed the cobbler? Has it ever happened before that the wolves took their cobbler down?

And why am I not surprised that a cobbler lover was a part of this game.

No time to gloat, though, while the three chief baddies are still around.


This post is somewhat defensive, I know, but I want it out of the way.

There's the issue about talking about giftedness. In my opinion, talking about whether somebody is not gifted and talking about whether somebody is gifted is equally bad. All I wanted to say yesterday was that Rikae could be gifted just like anybody else could be, not any more - after Nogrod and Volo claimed she probably isn't. The idea of reverse psychology (suspecting Rikae of giftedness and saying she is not gifted so that the balrogs won't take her) didn't occur to me then, to be honest.

Originally Posted by Legate

I indeed understood Volo's words as "Don't kill her at night", as he put it later, and there are things that a gentleman just does not speak about - that is, like playing with the idea that she's a gifted. Which was started by Mac, not Volo, from my point of view - if I thought that Rikae could be a gifted, I'd say exactly what Volo did.

Ok, the reverse psychology part I now understand. But I still don't get what you're talking about. Neither Volo nor I started it, but Nogrod. The fact that Volo was the cobbler and wanted to confuse us makes this statement look a little bad.

Originally Posted by Legate

But that reaction had sort of negative-tone against those who commented around her.

Care to explain?


Back soon - with interesting stuff, hopefully.

[Nogrod]

Okay. Here's for the freaks of this game: the facts (I have tried to pick up the relevant quotes but feel free to disagree and we can see whether I missed some important arguments). Some thoughts on these to follow later...

11PM Rikae -> Rikae (pops in and votes)

She has played ten games over the past year and has never been lynched - I say it's her turn. Besides, she is evil: she smashed my finger in a car door once. Oh, that's anachronistic - make it a van. She also is acting erratic and bizarre, which is clearly a sign of Balroggery.

1PM Kath -> Nogrod (the only chance to be online)

I'm tempted to try and kill him off already just to keep the number of pages down! Has posted nothing while posting a lot. Keeps calling for people to talk which, yeah, great, but we know that and after the third post asking for chat you don't really need to do it again. Plus, that post that concluded everyone he'd looked at was a possible balrog? I don't know, maybe it's just his playing style this game, but it's making me suspicious.

4.45PM Brinn -> Rikae (goes to class not sure whether able to come back)

I really doubt Rikae is a gifted; why would she want to confuse the village when she is so important to them?
I'm not entirely confident, but she is the most suspicious right now. If we wait until Day 2, a balrog Rikae could come back and say she did it because she didn't have time and didn't have any suspects, sounding entirely innocent all of sudden. I'm not sure I want to risk that.

5.15PM Gil -> Rikae (In a hurry and far away from a computer)

if Rikae really wants to commit suicide then sure for nobody else has any sufficent misgivings towards them.
Oh and Brinniel is on my list not for voting Rikae but for taking advantage of that if Rikae indeed turns to be an innocent, then Brinniel can play off that again...

5.40PM Volo -> Rikae (an hour and a half to the deadline, didn’t appear after the vote)

What is that all about, Rikae?? If you have a role that leads you to victory by being lynched the first, I think you'll achieve your goal. Really, what was that about??

5.46PM The Might -> Nogrod (popped in to vote with this explanation)

Well, it seems that except Rikae's strange decision nothing else happened that could really make you think someone is a balrog or not. So I must admit, making the vote isn't easy, but I'll just follow my Gondolindrim instinct and vote

6.12PM Nerwen -> Rikae (popped in to vote...)

Look, Rikae, I wasn't going to do anything until you'd had a chance to speak for yourself. Now that you have... I've really very little idea what you are or what you're trying to achieve.
You're certainly not making any effort to get your neck out of the noose. Either you're treating the whole thing as a joke, or you think you're done for anyway so there's no point resisting, or you really are deliberately trying to get lynched.
I can't say that you or anyone else has done anything that definitely says "balrog" to me– but time is running out. In the absence of a better candidate–

6.55PM Mith -> Nogrod (partook the final discussion and stayed to the end)

I really don't like Nogrod using me as his human shield and trying to create an illusion mass of suspicion about me when there has been very little save his. Attack the best form of defence methinks... And he is doing that pseudo helpful thing... .my guess is he could well be a gung-ho wolf becaus of his possible major absence later in the game.
Rikae is a very bold player ..... so bold I wonder if there isn't something special going on - we have not had full disclosure ..so if it is her or you Nogrod,it will be you...
Well to late to get a swing vote for Gil so

6.57PM Legate -> Rikae (partook the final discussion and stayed to the end)

Nevertheless, Rikae's behavior is still very strange (her answer is not an answer at all), so it just looks that she's a cobbler or whatever kind of madness. So probably I'm going to vote for her - with hope that we get rid of a cobbler by this.
One more thing concerning Rikae, or another reason to vote her. I am a little bit afraid that if she remains an enigma and remains alive, or even worse, if she's a cobbler and remains alive, she will only make the situation troublesome as she will spread our forces, so to say. We will still have this "What is she? Is she a cobbler?" back in our minds, and we'll spend a large part of discussion about that. Of course getting a balrog on the first day would be nice, and I am somewhat reluctant to think that she is one, but if she is a cobbler, then on the first day, it's in fact still quite a success, or at least small compensation for not catching a balrog.
But unfortunately, it looks now that the state of the village is that questions about you won't give us rest until you are dead, if I say it very nastily.
So it's her or Nogrod definitively? It's clearer then...

6.59PM Macalaure -> Nogrod (popped in to vote with a list of suspicion)

Nogrod is an option, but lynching Nogrod on Day One with little evidence? But Gil is a shot into the dark...
But then, there's no real option anymore but Rikae and Nogrod.

6.59PM Nogrod -> Rikae (partook the final discussion and stayed to the end)

That's so sad it lead to this as I don't think she is a balrog (a cobbler possibly but probably not even that).

PS. some of the quotes are gathered from a few different posts and some are from a single post... basically the vote post then.

PS.2. The times are GMT

[Nogrod]

Btw. if I needed to vote right now I might go for Macalaure indeed.

Look at his last post yesterDay posted one minute before the deadline.

Now he clearly had
a) time to think
b) time to type
what he did. A full list of suspicions in different categories.

So why did he use his precious time to post a list instead of taking part in the discussion and trying to make any points he might have had for the good of the village?

I once caught a wolf-Morm from this very same behaviour. Because it didn't matter to him who was lynched as he knew both of the candidates were innocents! So as he was not actually concerned as we were on the last minutes he thought it better to clean his image by trying to look helpfulf and make a list - because he was not worried about the outcome!

A slight blunder then, a lapse on the concentration it was or something you didn't come to think?

It could be added that his first post toDay doesn't look too sincere either. It's not a problem if someone sees he needs to defend himself from suspicion. But to underline the fact that one's post is a defencive one looks a bit overdoing it. I mean a baddie thinks about these things all the time and wonders how his posts look in the eyes of the others. So they become easily oversensitive and feel the need to explain and back themselves up. I know it from experience...

Also I had I slowly growing bad feelings about Mac already yesterDay. I need to go back to them later toDay to see whether there is something more than just bad feelings.

Back to looking at the votes...

[The Might]

Interesting idea Nogrod and the argument you make is quite convincing, I must admit.
Not so sure about the defensive part though, but then again, you're the more experienced player I guess.
Definitely good point, and I am quite interested to see what Mac will answer. Seems something does start to happen in here after all.

[Nogrod]

Things picked up from the voting yesterDay...

Kath I discussed with length already yesterDay and will not go back to her. See my post #43.

Brinn says:

If we wait until Day 2, a balrog Rikae could come back and say she did it because she didn't have time and didn't have any suspects, sounding entirely innocent all of sudden. I'm not sure I want to risk that.

And if she is a balrog she is telling the truth here. For she knows that if Rikae is alive on Day2 and becomes her sensible and intelligent self it would be hard to lynch her anymore and she might even be witty enough to cause the balrogs some trouble. (I have a few points on Brinn to come but I'll bring them forwards later as I first end up with these votes from yesterDay).

Gil looks like very confused indeed. And it's not the first time. I'm leaning towards his innocence at the moment as it would be astonishingly bold balrog-tactics to draw attention to oneself with such a weird logic.

Nerwen and The Might just popped in to vote and vanished. They didn't say they were in a hurry or otherwise unable to take part in the last deliberations (there were a lots of votes still to cast at the time they voted). So why did they just voted and left? A balrog would like to withdraw from the hot situations of the last minutes so as not to tumble there. So voting about an hour before the deadline and vanishing is the safe way to go.

I said already yesterDay that Mith's one-track mindedness and nervousness brought me back suspecting her towards the end of the Day but I must also say to her honour that she really stood to the end and tried to have an effect which looks more innocent than balrogish to me. So it's hard to say.

Legate sounds sensible and consistent. That would be the most dangerous kind of balroggery there is and I wouldn't put it past him to be able to pull that kind of bluff. But there seems to be a host of better candidates to look after right now.

Mac I already discussed in my last post. Maybe I could add that his speculation with Gil looks pretty odd. With one minute to go there was no real chance to lynch Gil! So why was that speculation there? Maybe he had written that part already earlier (ten minutes, fifteen minutes?) when there still was a chance to gather enough votes to lynch Gil instead of Rikae or myself? Maybe he just felt he needed to add something to the post as not to seem too happy with the choices? Whatever the reason the speculation on Gil looks strange from an innocent miner at that point.

Not voted: Sally (came forwards with apologies), Lhuna and Shasta
Not seen around: Naria

If Naria is not seen toDay she will be modfired so let's leave her to the graces if she doesn't appear.

EDIT:

Originally Posted by Sally

only that he's giving us a plethera of information which leads to no set conclusion

I hope you're a bit more satisfied with rthis post even if I can't give you the certain identities of the Balrogs as yet...

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

EDIT: I hope you're a bit more satisfied with rthis post even if I can't give you the certain identities of the Balrogs as yet...

Certainly. My apologies if I seem offended or put off by your overposting, as this is certainly not the case. I'm just used to being the only one in games that is talking, analyzing, or in my case making jokes to see what kind of reactions they garner. And I don't expect you to hand us a balrog outright (unless you are one, in which case go ahead and tighten your noose! :P) it's just that I've been tired the last couple days and therefore too lazy to make my own judgements.



With that said, or rather not said as I am not completely in my right mind, I will throw out my own suspicion list, which is basically just who looks like they either have something to hide or something to cover up with clever banter. Could be totally off, as I've just woken up from a nap, but after requesting that Nogrod post a more decisive thought I believe I should do so myself. The list is not all inclusive as I haven't formed an opinion on everyone yet. If I should live til the next day perhaps I can be of more help.


Harboring Hairy Tendencies, or at least in need of a shave:
Kath
Mac
Brinn (huge question mark!)

Leaning innocent, at least for the moment:
Nogrod
Gil
Mith

Where have they gone:
Shasta
Lhuna
Naria


I may update this when I return from church this evening, so feel free to comment while I'm gone.


p.s. I took a nap this afternoon and dreamt that I checked on here and everyone was voting me. just thought i'd shared that cuz i couldnt believe i'd dreamed about the game

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Nerwen and The Might just popped in to vote and vanished. They didn't say they were in a hurry or otherwise unable to take part in the last deliberations (there were a lots of votes still to cast at the time they voted). So why did they just voted and left? A balrog would like to withdraw from the hot situations of the last minutes so as not to tumble there. So voting about an hour before the deadline and vanishing is the safe way to go.

Yes, I owe you all an explanation for that. I was in fact in a hurry, and should have said so; however, I was also very tired from having pulled an all-nighter working on a project. I think I should say here that time zones are an issue for me, and mean that I'm mostly going to have to vote either very early or at the last minute.

I'll get back to you when I've had time to read through everything.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

I'm here! I'm here!

My deepest, deepest apologies. x_x;

I've been extreeeeemely busy designing props for the upcoming play at my college. But I'm here now, promise!

Off to read up...

Edit: Okay, after even just a glance, there's something about The Might that immediately sets me on edge. I'll see if I can get something concrete.

[Macalaure]

A few things, mostly about Nogrod. There are some things he said that seem odd.

While I agree with what Kath said about him, I wouldn't automatically conclude it's very suspicious. But he makes a lot of fuss around her suspicion and I think his defence is a little over the top (you mean mine was, too? Maybe, but that doesn't matter )

Originally Posted by Nogrod

You're right in doing that and it's a good viewpoint but you should also note that most of the people do not wish to restate things some others have already pointed out.

I don't understand what his comment has to do with mine.

Originally Posted by Nogrod

The silent balrogs seem to have won the Day once again which is a pity indeed.

How do you know the balrogs were silent?


Neither of these gives me a truly suspicious impression, but my overall picture of him is just fuzzy. The way Mith went after Nogrod is strange as well. I'm confused about both of them.


Oh, and I made that list of suspects while skim-reading the thread within a few minutes. I simply copied from the list of players and rearranged the names. The list wasn't meant to look helpful (it didn't even include any comment!), just to help me make up my mind.


I don't have time to look at others closer right now. See you tomorrow.

edit: crossed with Nogrod

[Macalaure]

Well, as I said, I wrote it while skim-reading. And at the end of it, Gil and you ended up being at the top of the list.

[The Might]

After these posts Macalaure seems pretty suspicious.
First he posts, saying that he must quickly leave and has no time to comment on anything else, so it looks to me as if he was kind of in a hurry.
Still, he finds time 5 minutes later to post again in a quite defensive trying to explain why Nogrod and Gil ended up as those he suspected most.

Again, I hope those that have posted less will find time to do that till tomorrow.
See you tomorrow!

[Brinniel]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

It could be added that his first post toDay doesn't look too sincere either. It's not a problem if someone sees he needs to defend himself from suspicion. But to underline the fact that one's post is a defencive one looks a bit overdoing it. I mean a baddie thinks about these things all the time and wonders how his posts look in the eyes of the others. So they become easily oversensitive and feel the need to explain and back themselves up.

Indeed. Any baddie who feels they've been put under a hot fire can become overly defensive. And often, such behaviour only digs them a deeper hole. Isn't that what happened in the last game with Lommy?

Anyways, Nogrod does seem to be making a lot more sense toDay, but I'm still not entirely sure if I should trust him.

Originally Posted by Might

After these posts Macalaure seems pretty suspicious.
First he posts, saying that he must quickly leave and has no time to comment on anything else, so it looks to me as if he was kind of in a hurry.
Still, he finds time 5 minutes later to post again in a quite defensive trying to explain why Nogrod and Gil ended up as those he suspected most.

I honestly don't understand why you find his timing to be suspicious. I got the impression his comment, "I don't have time to look at others closer right now" meant he didn't have time to make any lengthy analyses. Mac obviously cross-posted and had a few spare moments to skim Nogrod's post before leaving....I know I like to read any cross posts before I go, otherwise I might forget about them when I come back.

To answer Nogrod's question:

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Says I’m her second suspicion because of the early posts but that she has not enough evidence to back it up. Now I wondered this back up pointing to the “early posts” already earlier: if she wasn’t so sure any more / if there was no later suspicion so why did she boost the choice that was emerging thanks to Kath (whose points I still find the most fabricated in here)?

Your earlier posts consisted mainly of banter, and you said a lot without providing any useful information and I found that somewhat suspicious. There wasn't enough evidence to back that up because none of your later posts screamed guilty. It doesn't change the fact that I was still uncomfortable from your first posts. But I won't vote for someone based only off banter and nothing else.
Anyways, I hope that clears things up.

Ugh, I'm afraid I've been crazy exhausted lately with schoolwork. Let me go clear my head with a nap and I'll come back with more thoughts later.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Okay. I didn't have time to go through yesterDay's posts concerning Volo much after all, because in the last two hours some important things just popped at me and I did not have time to do anything else. And I'm going to sleep soon, so nothing much from me now, and what more, I'm not so sure with my toDay's participation at large. What I can say for certain already is that I'm not going to be here for the whole second half of the Day, including DL And this time it's definite, so I am voting probably in the morning.

Now, what I would like to solve primarily:

In reply to Mac:

Originally Posted by Mac

Ok, the reverse psychology part I now understand. But I still don't get what you're talking about. Neither Volo nor I started it, but Nogrod. The fact that Volo was the cobbler and wanted to confuse us makes this statement look a little bad.

Oh, sorry, I forgot mentioning Nogrod. But I did not focus on Nogrod or Volo back then, but you, mainly. What I posted was referring to the moment when I was pondering (while reading the thread) whether Rikae could not be, let's say, a Seer disguising herself. I did not think it's like that, but that was the second possibility (the 10% after the 80% that she's a cobbler).
What you said seemed to me as if you are not speaking about Rikae much, but trying to, in a wolfy-way make it seem that Volo and/or Nogrod are suspicious:

Originally Posted by Macalaure

Then there's Nogrod and Volo. I don't like the argument that Rikae is in no way gifted. I don't think we can be entirely sure. The argument also has an aftertaste of "She's not gifted, so when in doubt, we can lynch her without much of a loss." Even though they both denies this, it's in there nevertheless.

The second part of it. To me it seemed like slight way of rising suspicion against them.

Kath. Going through her post of yesterday, it still gives me that feeling of "you are all bad". But if she wrote it in a hurry, it's explainable that she could not write too much. Her post toDay is not helping much to get a clearer picture on her, so hopefully she posts during (my) night so that I have more info in the morning. One thing that puzzles me on her yesterDay's post is this:

Originally Posted by Kath

[Legate] is being a bit pedantic about Rikae though. 9 games is very close to 10. Maybe there was a miscount, or he missed a junior game. It just feels like suspecting for the sake of suspecting.

I did not speak about it yesterDay, so if anyone is still interested in that, with the lynches of Rikae I was mistaken. But she actually was almost lynched, but people retracted and she was killed during the night. But I was a Wolf back then so what mattered to me was that she's dead, you see Anyway, and this is what I wanted to say, I don't see how this should concern us now, and my words about Rikae lying was only a joke. Otherwise I was meditating about her being a cobbler or not. Now I don't see why would Kath mention exactly this, unless she is joking as well, but again, if she is, then why she uses so much space for it in her only post? So if anything, this looks suspicious, or strange at least.

The Might. From his posts, I have the worse and worse feeling. He appears, says to the person who posted before him "I agree with you" and sometimes, as we have seen yesterDay, votes. BUT, given the pattern how he does that, I'm getting the feeling that despite it looks suspicious, it's his style of playing. Or, if not anything better, then at least his adopted style of playing as a balrog. This being his first game we have nothing to compare this with, but I'm willing to leave him without suspecting for now (though I am watching him. In the first game I played, I was a Werewolf and made it to the end partially, I believe, because I was a newbie).

Sally is making me nervous toDay. She was making me feel somewhat unsettled yesterDay, but her funny chatter about hairy balrogs is sort of disturbing. "What's with the haircut?" Too much hair, too little substance, I'd say. But again, as she says she's not going to be around much toDay, I'm putting her away for now.

Mr. Nogrod is actually quite fine, helpful, nice, polite (he provides info even about himself). He's known to do that, but. But there is one but and that is that he can be using the Voice of Saruman-tactics, even on me, trying to rally masses to his cause. For example, picking Mac as suspect when he knows I have suspected him, and making a crusade against him. There is the question what would a Nogrog (or Balrod?) do if Mac was lynched and turned innocent. Of course, there would be the possiblity that they are both balrogs and Mac would be making a sacrifice for the greater good. But to be honest, I believe this is not probable. If you look at them, it would take much effort to come up with a plan leading to the situation in which we are now. Not that I am underrating them, but it just does not seem probable. Even though the Mods we currently have are capable of making a balrog team Nogrod-Mac-someone.

Others have not spoken this far. I'm really leaving now. I am very curious about the other people's reaction on toDay, but that remains to be seen. Good whatever to you.

[Nogrod]

Brinniel:

#15 Says she’d hoped for more talk and will wait if someone talks... Everyone must be watched closely.

#20 After I had asked her why did she just complain that no one was saying anything rather than saying something herself she says she had made “serious comments”. Says that baddies might hide within bantering – which is true of course. Defends herself once again by saying she had actually “said something” – which can be questioned indeed. I find this post most self-defencive taking into account that there were no open suspicions on her at that moment.

#22 Questions Rikae’s self-vote. Says going suicidal doesn’t help us finding the balrogs. This is most true but also something a balrog would love to say given the opportunity... Oh, how it looks good!

#29 Makes analysis / tells us what she thinks of the people. Basically she thinks that she has no opinion or that people have said nothing of substance. Makes a good analysis on Rikae’s possible roles and says of me that “at this point it is hard to say”.

#42 Votes for Rikae and disagrees with Mac in a way that leaves me quite baffled. Were they talking about the same thing in the first place? Says I’m her second suspicion because of the early posts but that she has not enough evidence to back it up. Now I wondered this back up pointing to the “early posts” already earlier: if she wasn’t so sure any more / if there was no later suspicion so why did she boost the choice that was emerging thanks to Kath (whose points I still find the most fabricated in here)? So I was a bit disturbed how she was ready to kind of ensure the choices we would pick to lynch would be Rikae and myself. I know now that we both are innocents (and if she is a balrog she would know it too) and that kind of choice would be very practical and happy one for the baddies indeed.

So there are things in here that make me a bit worried about Brinn but I have to say that I’m not so sure about this as I was while I skimmed the posts making the vote-analysis. Darn this is hard... and fun!

A short comment to follow and then I need to sleep.

[Mithalwen]

Originally Posted by Macalaure

Neither of these gives me a truly suspicious impression, but my overall picture of him is just fuzzy. The way Mith went after Nogrod is strange as well. I'm confused about both of them.

With our history?

I don't know why I am accused of being jumpy ... I have nothing to be jumpy about at least as far as the game goes and I would love some specific examples ... I know I can be thin skinned but my main emotion was frustration at the Groundhog end of the day situation with just me and Nogrod around and sniping at each other....

I have only been able to skim through todays posts so far but I do wonder that if we had a Cobbler lover, if we might have a gifted Lover (as opposed to the usual Werewolf / Ordo combo). I don't know if that gets us further since obviously it is not helpful to speculate about the identity of gifteds... just a ponder.

I am sorry that I haven't been here more ... I hope to rectify that....

[Mithalwen]

Sorry just noticed the triangle lover thang .... didn't read the narration properly...

[Macalaure]

I don't know why I am accused of being jumpy

I didn't say you're jumpy, just that the whole thing between you and Nogrod had some weirdness in it. But now that you mentioned it, yes, it does has some Groundhog Day resemblance. It's not the first game in which I found your conversation strange.

[satansaloser2005]

First of all, what fortune for us to have the cobbler killed last night. I think that finding the hairy killers will be much easier with their little friend out of the way. Second of all, who perhaps looks the hairiest and balrogiest among us? As of yet I have no solid grasp on the identities of the hairy little beasts, although plenty of discussion has been thrown out by Nogrod in particular. Not to imply necessarily that he is a murderer in need of a shave, only that he's giving us a plethera of information which leads to no set conclusion, excluding his last post, which does require consideration. Further observation is needed before I cast my vote to end the life of ANY villager, be they miner or balrog, as I believe we must present a united front against our furry foes.



p.s. I may not be able to vote tomorrow! i have a class until almost 3pm CT so i may try to sneak out in the middle and go down to the library to check things out so i don't miss the deadline

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Macalaure

They killed the cobbler? Has it ever happened before that the wolves took their cobbler down?

No time to gloat, though, while the three chief baddies are still around.

This post is somewhat defensive, I know, but I want it out of the way.

Okay, whatever. I just looked at this whole post once again. Seems really balrog-made. I'm voting. Que sera sera...

++Macalaure

Goodbye.

[Macalaure]

An unsuspected lack of time has hit me this week, so I have to make it brief. I'll be there about an hour from the deadline.

I could make a long analysis of Legate and why he is out of his mind in this game so far, but I won't, because a) there's no time and b) I have a feeling I would end up with the conclusion that he's confused, but innocently confused, so it's probably not worth doing anyway.

At the moment, I trust Kath, Nerwen and maybe Mith, but that's all, sadly.

It's even sadder that many have still contributed too little for me to draw conclusions from (Lhuna, Shasta, Naria, Gil).

I don't know where to put Sally and the Might.

Be very wary of Nogrod, my dear friends, be very wary of Nogrod!

And while I'm 'only' very wary of Nogrod, I am very suspicious of Brinniel. I will come back to that when I'm back.

[The Might]

Well, back home and I notice that quite many posts have been regarding me being a bad guy, due to the fact that I agreed with Nogrod and also with Legate about Mac.
However, I had had my own suspicions about Mac from the start of the 2nd day. I felt that this constant need to explain the own decisions (lol, seems I'm doing that now) was a bit exaggerated and seems quite balrogish. And also, I must admit that as a new player in the game I do rather tend to somewhat trust the intuition of more experienced players. This of course does not mean that I would do anything an older player tries to convince me to, but as already said, since I already had my own suspicions abut Mac and some other god arguments were brought against him, I agreed with the others.
Since I was suspicious about Mac and he and Nogrod didn't seem to be on the best terms, I also felt that both he and Legate were and are innocent, as as Legate already pointed out, I somehow doubt the balrogs would sacrifice one of them just to make us feel safe from one of them. Of course, it is possible, but not really a good early game strategy in my opinion.

All in all, I've made up my mind, and am voting out

++Macalaure

I am quite certain about my vote and also am suspicious about Kath, but I'm not entirely sure about that one.

Sorry that I need to vote early again today and it's not because I want to avoid the ending discussion but because I'm invited to a friend who is turning 19 today. I mean, WW is nice, but I'm not saying no to cake. Anyway, he's got a computer with Internet so I might make a post later on if I have the chance to, but can't promise anything.

[Kath]

Nog, I can't believe you just called me 'dear'! I love this new patronising air you've popped up with. Look, by all means suspect people, it is after all the point of the game, it's the manner in which you're doing it that I meant clashes with people. Naria said something to that effect before you'd really even mentioned her so it isn't just a reaction to having suspicion put on you.

Anyway, I don't want to argue that point any more. It's obviously we both have very different ideas on it and I don't want to create a two-way fight, it's just boring. So let's look at the other things you said.

I'd have cursed a lot if I hadn't voted her and the last minute votes would have turned the tables.

You claim that you're innocent, and we know now that Rikae was, so in terms of numbers it actually doesn't matter which one of you died, if one of you was going to. So why the cursing?

And the reason for the suspicion was that you voted for someone you considered to be innocent to save your own life, which is something I consider suspicious.

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Kath

Anyway, I don't want to argue that point any more. It's obviously we both have very different ideas on it

Wholeheartedly agreed with! And as this seems to cover also the case of "patronising" (which meaning I had no idea about!) I guess we should discuss these semantic-emotional sides of English language after the game. But my intent is not to clash with anyone.

You claim that you're innocent, and we know now that Rikae was, so in terms of numbers it actually doesn't matter which one of you died, if one of you was going to. So why the cursing?

Because I would have been out of the game after Day1 - as happend in the game before the last one... I like this game so it's not nice to get out of it on Day1. Simple as that. And remember, we didn't know then Rikae was innocent but I knew I am.

And the reason for the suspicion was that you voted for someone you considered to be innocent to save your own life, which is something I consider suspicious.

There was no way my one vote would have saved her and even with a last minute flow of votes to me I didn't know whether Rikae was a goodie or a baddie... And I tried to have alternative candidates forwards. No one just paid heed to my calls.

But now I think we need some fresh ideas. I do agree with you about the duels... and they are not only boring but oftentimes also counterproductive as well.

[Gil-Galad]

I am voting:

++Macalaure

If he turns into a wolf then i will be staring more at Brinniel and i am sad of Mith's quietness...

[Nogrod]

Oh, Mac! You're not making this easier...

But I'm glad you posted. I have done some rethinking during the pauses today and well, at one time I was almost ready to say we stick to Kath and forget you from the lynchlist but...

I'd say you and Legate are not both innocents and probably not both balrogs either. Now some things which Legate has said toDay have really started to make me wonder about his game (and in that case he has played this sooo beautifully - hats off to him). But now as I read your post I'm afraid I'm back on square one again.

---

And please people, bring forwards more suspects! I'm waiting to see what you have on Brinn, Mac as I've thought her a bit more unsuspicious lately - but I haven't given her any serious thought of late.

Also let's remember that having only vocal players on the lynch-row might in the end prove to be a bad decision.

So let's also consider some enigmas toDay.

OOC: I've a lot of work to do at home this evening but I will try to shove some of them aside to play this as well.