Super Deluxe COH announced - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Sauron the White · 11-26-2007, 08:38 AM

davem ... yes you are correct in that nobody has to buy anything they do not want to. That is a given. And if collectors - or even non-collectors want to shell out money for something they already have in a slightly different format, then thats the free marketplace being exercised. I have no problem with that and certainly do not want to legislate against any such thing.

My problem is the readiness of such a market and the willingness of the collector also works against people like myself who want to see something new and different. After all, if a SIL calendar with old Naismith paintings sells well, why should the publishers pay him a couple of grand per new illustration? The one obvious reason is that many want to see new work. But this is a business and the key ruling power in business is the bottom line. Paying Ted Naismith or anyone else several thousand dollars for a new painting is just not good business from their perspective.

I do understand that some people are buying not a book with the Deluxe version of COH but are making an investment. Truthfully, I feel no more sympathy for them than I do someone buying stocks or bonds and expecting a generous return. I buy nothing for such purposes. I buy for my enjoyment and because I want to own such things.

William Cloud Hicklin · 11-26-2007, 09:08 AM

Well, StW, there may well be those who would like to have the Naismith pictures for rather less dough than shelling out for yet another copy of The Silmarillion. In making them available at a lower price, the publishers aren't doing anything different, in principle, than releasing a book in paperback.

Myself I don't get very hopped up about 'collectible value'- I'm a stocks-and-bonds kinda guy- and possessing a book (or bookplate) with a signature the author cranked out assembly-line fashion doesn't have much personal value for me- certainly not anything like Christopher's signatures at the bottom of his letters.

davem · 11-26-2007, 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by William Cloud Hickli

Myself I don't get very hopped up about 'collectible value'- I'm a stocks-and-bonds kinda guy- and possessing a book (or bookplate) with a signature the author cranked out assembly-line fashion doesn't have much personal value for me- certainly not anything like Christopher's signatures at the bottom of his letters.

Afraid if I bought this thing it would be purely for setting aside for a couple of years & then selling on. I fear that (to me at least) it has no inherent value - but then I'm not a collector as such. Which is not to deny that in itself its a very nice thing.

Of course, recieving letters from CT would be a superior thing to simply owning a copy of a book(plate) signed by him, but we are not all in that enviable position. That said, signed copies have their own value to collectors. I don't see this as any different to buying a signed limited edition Alan Lee print - its a collectible which should appreciate in value.

Sauron the White · 11-26-2007, 11:58 AM

WCH - so the publishers are performing something akin to an act of charity by releasing the Naismith pictures in a different format? They are not doing this for pure monetary gain and to increase corporate profits but to assist the poor JRRT fan who dearly wants to have the Naismith pictures but had to make a choice between a watch chain and a hair brush for a family member and had no money remaining?

I admire your debating skills WCH. You should go into political work where a mind that can work like that is suitable rewarded. And that is said with a smile.

William Cloud Hicklin · 11-26-2007, 12:53 PM

StW:
They're doing both- they are satisfying a perceived market need. Certain Tolkien fans get the pictures for less, and H/C makes money. Win-win.

No business is in it for charity- but that doesn't mean that they're not offering value for money. Consumer choice is a good thing.

Sauron the White · 11-26-2007, 03:14 PM

I do understand your point William although I fall more on the cynical side of this question while you seem to fall on the optimistic side. Perhaps all I wanted was for the publishers to follow through on their own precedent set with the COH calendar for 2008 in which they did include some new illustrations which were not in the book. Four new SIL paintings would have put a smile upon my face and make the fifteen dollars a lot easier to part with.

davem · 11-26-2007, 03:44 PM

StW. I think you're missing the point - they could sell the last two Alan Lee calendars: LotR on the strength of the movies & the Sketchbook, & CoH on the strength of the movies & the book. They won't bring out a Hobbit themed calendar till the Hobbit movie makes an appearance - so that leaves them to come up with an economic (ie cheap) fill in - & there's all those nice Naismith paintings available......

Personally I would have loved them to have commissioned Alan Lee to produce a Smith of Wooton Major calendar, but with Tolkien out of the limelight at the moment (no movie or new book) HC are not going to bother spending unnecessary money.

(Plus, the paintings will be reproduced in a larger size than in the book)

11-26-2007, 09:08 AM	#2
William Cloud Hicklin Loremaster of Annúminas Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 2,330	Well, StW, there may well be those who would like to have the Naismith pictures for rather less dough than shelling out for yet another copy of The Silmarillion. In making them available at a lower price, the publishers aren't doing anything different, in principle, than releasing a book in paperback. Myself I don't get very hopped up about 'collectible value'- I'm a stocks-and-bonds kinda guy- and possessing a book (or bookplate) with a signature the author cranked out assembly-line fashion doesn't have much personal value for me- certainly not anything like Christopher's signatures at the bottom of his letters. __________________ The entire plot of The Lord of the Rings could be said to turn on what Sauron didn’t know, and when he didn’t know it.

11-26-2007, 12:53 PM	#5
William Cloud Hicklin Loremaster of Annúminas Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 2,330	StW: They're doing both- they are satisfying a perceived market need. Certain Tolkien fans get the pictures for less, and H/C makes money. Win-win. No business is in it for charity- but that doesn't mean that they're not offering value for money. Consumer choice is a good thing. __________________ The entire plot of The Lord of the Rings could be said to turn on what Sauron didn’t know, and when he didn’t know it.

11-26-2007, 03:44 PM	#7
davem Illustrious Ulair Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: In the home of lost causes, and forsaken beliefs, and unpopular names,and impossible loyalties Posts: 4,240	StW. I think you're missing the point - they could sell the last two Alan Lee calendars: LotR on the strength of the movies & the Sketchbook, & CoH on the strength of the movies & the book. They won't bring out a Hobbit themed calendar till the Hobbit movie makes an appearance - so that leaves them to come up with an economic (ie cheap) fill in - & there's all those nice Naismith paintings available...... Personally I would have loved them to have commissioned Alan Lee to produce a Smith of Wooton Major calendar, but with Tolkien out of the limelight at the moment (no movie or new book) HC are not going to bother spending unnecessary money. (Plus, the paintings will be reproduced in a larger size than in the book) __________________ “Everything was an object. If you killed a dwarf you could use it as a weapon – it was no different to other large heavy objects."

11-26-2007, 08:38 AM	#1
Sauron the White Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 903	davem ... yes you are correct in that nobody has to buy anything they do not want to. That is a given. And if collectors - or even non-collectors want to shell out money for something they already have in a slightly different format, then thats the free marketplace being exercised. I have no problem with that and certainly do not want to legislate against any such thing. My problem is the readiness of such a market and the willingness of the collector also works against people like myself who want to see something new and different. After all, if a SIL calendar with old Naismith paintings sells well, why should the publishers pay him a couple of grand per new illustration? The one obvious reason is that many want to see new work. But this is a business and the key ruling power in business is the bottom line. Paying Ted Naismith or anyone else several thousand dollars for a new painting is just not good business from their perspective. I do understand that some people are buying not a book with the Deluxe version of COH but are making an investment. Truthfully, I feel no more sympathy for them than I do someone buying stocks or bonds and expecting a generous return. I buy nothing for such purposes. I buy for my enjoyment and because I want to own such things.

11-26-2007, 11:58 AM	#4
Sauron the White Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 903	WCH - so the publishers are performing something akin to an act of charity by releasing the Naismith pictures in a different format? They are not doing this for pure monetary gain and to increase corporate profits but to assist the poor JRRT fan who dearly wants to have the Naismith pictures but had to make a choice between a watch chain and a hair brush for a family member and had no money remaining? I admire your debating skills WCH. You should go into political work where a mind that can work like that is suitable rewarded. And that is said with a smile.

11-26-2007, 03:14 PM	#6
Sauron the White Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 903	I do understand your point William although I fall more on the cynical side of this question while you seem to fall on the optimistic side. Perhaps all I wanted was for the publishers to follow through on their own precedent set with the COH calendar for 2008 in which they did include some new illustrations which were not in the book. Four new SIL paintings would have put a smile upon my face and make the fifteen dollars a lot easier to part with.