WW XXXX - The scouring of the Shire, vol.2

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

I mean, that's a very odd comment. If we liked to do so, we could take Rikae's word for it. But more importantly, why should Rikae refrain from saying something she feels? Just because we can't consider it a serious point for Mac's innocence? Surely we get more idea where Rikae and her opinions stand, so it is valuable information to us others?

I mentioned it because Rikae herself has been critical of comments that she sees as lacking substance. That one struck me as being rather pointless, that's all. She also seems to be very arbitrary about how she applies her "empty post = suspicious" rule.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Nerwen

I mentioned it because Rikae herself has been critical of comments that she sees as lacking substance. That one struck me as being rather pointless, that's all. She also seems to be very arbitrary about how she applies her "empty post = suspicious" rule.

I don't see especially that point as strange either. I can see where you are coming from, but I'd say whatever anyone says, be it only his own opinion, is worth something - at least to us others. We can later use that for analysis. Or eventually say "Rikae and Mac were wolves and they needed an easy reason why not to supect each other". Otherwise, I did not notice the "rule" you mention to be as apparent. I personally thought about that as well, but sally does that (already behaved like that the game before) and f.ex. Kath appears only to say she will be back later - now what kind of playing is that, really? - but one has to understand that. Also, this is the first day (to quote the refrain once more) and there was not much to speak of if they didn't have that much time.

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

I don't see especially that point as strange either. I can see where you are coming from, but I'd say whatever anyone says, be it only his own opinion, is worth something - at least to us others. We can later use that for analysis.

Point taken. I guess I was being over-critical.

For the rest of it, though... well, I do think some of her comments show a bit of a double-standard. For instance, she finds my first post to be somewhat suspicious because all I did was remind everyone to consider the timezone issue before they start lynching people for being too quiet. In her view, there's not enough substance there– and yet she has no problem with people who have done nothing at all but joke.

Understand that I'm criticizing her arguments on grounds of inconsistency, not making an accusation.

EDIT: X'd with Volo and A Little Green.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Nerwen, apology accepted, but why do you seem now suddenly all too self-critical? Or, self-defensive? Don't overdo it, or I may start to suspect you!

Note to Volo's post - for Fea - see? Now this is what I meant - if you post something that has substance, people may start to react to you. Not that it always is a good thing, but that's for another debate

Originally Posted by Lilla Greenhand

If Valier is a wolf, that would be a perfect guise. If, as a wolf, she finds nothing too "suspicious" about anyone, she can just rely on voting for a quiet person.
Otherwise I don't find Valier exceptionally wolf-ish. Besides, I have the impression that she is an experienced player. If so, she would probably not post a phrase like that as a wolf.

*Notes down: if she and Valier are the wolves, this would be very good move. Keep in mind for further.*

[Volo]

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

Nerwen, apology accepted, but why do you seem now suddenly all too self-critical? Or, self-defensive? Don't overdo it, or I may start to suspect you!

Originally Posted by Nerwen

Point taken. I guess I was being over-critical.

I'm not siding with Nerwen now, but that's also what I felt like saying after you stared at me. Now is Legate just right and has water-proof points or does he hold the voice of Saruman once again?

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

Note to Volo's post - for Fea - see? Now this is what I meant - if you post something that has substance, people may start to react to you. Not that it always is a good thing, but that's for another debate

I guess this would answer my question.

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

*Notes down: if she and Valier are the wolves, this would be very good move. Keep in mind for further.*

Well, not good enough as it was spotted... Now this makes me want to lean to lynching Valier and finding out what she is. I'll try to take the feeling critically.


EDIT: Xd with Lommy and Aganzir.

[Macalaure]

Well, well...

Shall we lynch a quiet one, a loud one, a weird one, or an actually suspicious one? I'm not going to touch the question due to its obviousness, I'd just like to point out that those who speak on this matter with good Hobbit sense do not look less suspicious to me because of it. It's too easy for a wolf to appear innocent by speaking sense in irrelevant matters.

Originally Posted by Rikae

Macalaure - This may not be quite kosher, but I talk to Mac every day and can read him fairly well, if I say so myself. He's given none of his typical "hiding something" vibes so far.

Not kosher indeed. You would have to be able to read me exceptionally well in order to catch any vibes from those few lines of exclusive joking. Sure, it's an opinion and therefore perfectly okay to be stated (I don't see Nerwen's objection at all), but I don't see how you could have gotten there.

Which brings me to Nerwen. I get the feeling that she is much more tense than she was in her first game. What she says isn't necessarily suspicious, but her tone makes me uneasy.

Of course, Rikae's analysis of people is not cutting edge - how could it be? Obviously, it was only intended to get the ball rolling - and it was successful with it. I don't see why Legate takes an issue with it in #34.

Volo looks suspicious to me. First he criticises Rikae along the lines Legate did, but much stronger, then he agrees with her and conveniently jumps on the Valier-bandwaggon (#39).

I disagree with Fea's statement that we won't catch a wolf today unless s/he's stupid. The sharper we look, the less stupid a wolf has to be in order to be caught. Still, her statement at least is genuine - other than the ones of those who agreed with her. *coughalittlegreenandvolocough*

(edit: crossed with Lommy, Aganzir, and Volo)

[Volo]

Originally Posted by Mac

I disagree with Fea's statement that we won't catch a wolf today unless s/he's stupid. The sharper we look, the less stupid a wolf has to be in order to be caught. Still, her statement at least is genuine - other than the ones of those who agreed with her. *coughalittlegreenandvolocough*

Might I ask you when did I agree with her? When I said that there are no hard facts on Day1? Yes, I did agree with that, but that is all with which I agreed. I do not prefer random votes, basicly because they're unfair and because they leave no trails - only by leaving trails can the Innocents get the Wolves to leave trails as they follow behind.

Originally Posted by Macalaure

Volo looks suspicious to me. First he criticises Rikae along the lines Legate did, but much stronger, then he agrees with her and conveniently jumps on the Valier-bandwaggon (#39).

Legate's talk is too subtle and it leaves an open path for him to change the meaning of his words later on, but I see nothing wrong with suspecting Rikae. I have no way of proving it, but I wrote my post about Rikae before I read Legate's and decided not to change it when I got to it.

I'm not happy with voting Valier, but I haven't found any better reasons to vote anybody else. I hope she will return before any bandwagons will take place.

[Nerwen]

There appear to be two schools of thought about the value of doing serious wolf-hunting on the first Day. I'm somewhere in the middle– I think it's worth analysing posts for signs of wolfishness, but also that catching one will take a large amount of luck.

(This, I admit, is based on almost no experience.)

There's also the problem that people who look for wolves too hard now can wind up looking wolfish themselves– they really don't have much to build on, so they seem to be making baseless accusations. This is one of the reasons I'm not accusing Rikae even though some of her arguments are, in my view, a bit strange. I think she's most likely just trying to work with what she's got.

EDIT: X'd with Kath, Mac and Volo.