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#1 | |
Loremaster of Annúminas
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 2,330
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The entire plot of The Lord of the Rings could be said to turn on what Sauron didn’t know, and when he didn’t know it. |
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#2 |
Pittodrie Poltergeist
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: trying to find that warm and winding lane again
Posts: 633
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I think she was just a 'simple' soul.
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As Beren looked into her eyes within the shadows of her hair, The trembling starlight of the skies he saw there mirrored shimmering. |
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#3 | ||
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 1,036
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Laws and Customs is one source, yes, but another text from Morgoth's Ring reads:
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#4 |
Eagle of the Star
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Sarmisegethuza
Posts: 1,058
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Perhaps the correct meaning of the phrase is that it compares the rate of growth of things in Middle Earth and the growth of Eldar in Aman. Anyway, if we are to compare Myths Transformed and Tolkien's other writings, we should have in mind that at least part of the MT texts constitue what Chris called "a fearful weapon against [Tolkien's] own creation".
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"May the wicked become good. May the good obtain peace. May the peaceful be freed from bonds. May the freed set others free." |
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#5 | |
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 1,036
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The source of Joy in Aman for Elves was comparative: the Eldar grew at the same rate but 3000 years of change about them in Aman was much less than in Middle-earth; in Middle-earth '... all things in comparison with themselves were fleeting, swift to die or pass away.' |
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#6 | |||
Eagle of the Star
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Sarmisegethuza
Posts: 1,058
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Then again, this may all be in vain - MT may be an out-standing text in this matter too, with little if any potential to be reconciled.
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"May the wicked become good. May the good obtain peace. May the peaceful be freed from bonds. May the freed set others free." |
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#7 | ||||
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 1,036
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If I have guessed the passage you mean, the context of Finrod's words is not about Elf-children (not that you said it was) but rather the question of longevity inspired him here, and his remark that 'the change of their Bodies is swifter than in the beginning' leads him to guess that their hroar will prove less strong to last than they were designed to be. This seems to suggest fading in my opinion (though far off in the future), and interestingly in Author's Notes on the 'Commentary' (note 7) it's stated that Finrod had already 'glimpsed' the process of waning or fading. In Aman the text gets around to longevity again, and the 'Stuff of Arda': 'But their bodies, being of the Stuff of Arda, were nonetheless not so enduring as their spirits; for the longevity of the Quendi (...) Therefore, after the vitality of the hroa was expended in achieving full growth, it began to weaken or grow weary. Very slowly indeed, but to all the Quendi perceptibly'. Then the explanation moves once again to fading. Of course the growth to adulthood is still 'ageing', and the idea that the Melkor ingredient affects various aspects of growth seems reasonable. With mortals, growing to adulthood is still the path to death despite that it usually (I would think) is considered a phase of strengthening and vigor (as opposed to weakening and growing weary). Is the actual growth to adulthood affected by the 'debility introduced by Melkor' into the substance of Arda? Or rather the strength of the hroa to continue undimmed for thousands and thousands (and thousands) of years after maturity is gained. Quote:
Perhaps the two texts are compatible in this regard? and we have a changing growth rate to adulthood (in Middle-earth) from the early days that leads to the numbers in L&C? Last edited by Galin; 12-08-2007 at 10:30 PM. |
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