A sad experience

[Azaelia of Willowbottom]

I'm actually just waiting for the right moment to watch FOTR again. I've been re-reading the book, and it's got me in a Middle-earthy mood. It's just hard to find the time to watch a 3-hour movie, or even to read a few chapters in a day. :P

STW, what do you mean by that Wilde quote? It's very disillusioned for my tastes. I don't see anything wrong with hoping FOTR will be magical when you watch it again. Nor do I see anything wrong with looking for comfort or catharsis or whatever in a movie. After all, the way I see it, the LOTR movies show a kind of truth and integrity rarely found these days...and because of this, they inspire the same kind of truth in the audience. It's possible to live the opposite kind of life to what Wilde is talking about, and to still want the LOTR movies to be the same. I'm doing it.

I've been trying to say something here in response to the original topic, but I had a hard time with it, I think because it lies too close to the person I am for me to objectively define it...but here goes with a rather weak attempt...

I think that the trick is to see that you're not exactly the same anymore...but the movie is going to be exactly the same. But that that's allright, and it shouldn't have to be anything different than it is in that moment. Instead of trying to see it through old eyes, watch it through the new ones. I think that the dissatisfaction happens when you try to reconcile what you know it SHOULD be with what it is.

Or perhaps it has to do with knowing what it was in you that made you wonder at the FOTR movie...and then reviving it and holding onto it, or never letting go of it in the first place.

*sigh* It's not coming together for me. Perhaps someone will get my drift.

[Sauron the White]

Azaelia ... I do not think that the term "groupthink" was present in the days of Oscar Wilde but he described it just the same. You describe the quote as too disillusioned for your taste. There is no doubt that Wilde cuts to the quick without all the frills and lace and often appears cynical or curt. But in his curtness is wisdom and insight.

[alatar]

First, there's no going back...

That said, for those of you with different experiences when you've rewatched the movies, are you controlling for environmental variables? When you first saw them, were you at the cineplex with a bunch of friends, on a date, or, like me and the Mrs., spending a few rare hours without having to watch the kids? Did you get dressed up, have a soda, go out afterwards and discuss it ad nauseam? And then, when you've rewatched them, was it late night on your 12" computer monitor while you were hungry and studying?

Before passing judgment, run the correct control experiment, and see if the rewatching is truly what has changed.

[Lush]

I know what you mean, SoNo.

Relationships ebb and flow, and our relationships with artistic material are no different in that regard.

I was actually quite surprised when, upon re-watching "The Return of the King" with my brother, I found that I had liked it more than I did before. When I saw the final film in the theaters, I found myself unmoved by large chunks of it and wrote it off as mostly a disappointment. The scene at the Grey Havens had particularly irritated me - I thought it could have been done a whole lot better.

I can't pinpoint what it was that made me respond to it in a very different way when I watched it later. Was it because I was in the company of a child, and was seeing at least some of it through his eyes? Was it because I was picking up on a completely different vibe from the source material itself (considering how multi-faceted it is)? Was I simply in a better mood? Who knows?

The important thing is, your thoughts and emotions have not remained static.

[Meneltarmacil]

Well, after watching the series again after a long time (FOTR and TTT as-released, and the ROTK EE), I can't say that I was disappointed by anything (with the possible exceptions of Denethor's disgusting eating scene, Sam's "Share the load," and the detour to Osgiliath, in that order) but that's all. Sure, Peter Jackson's LOTR wasn't a perfect translation of the books, but the truth is, it didn't have to be. I enjoyed it regardless.

Now, as for how my feelings toward the movies have changed, I find that I'm less bothered by them now than I was before, mainly because when I was watching them in theaters, I kept wondering, "Oh no, is he going to ruin the next scene or will it be OK?" Now I don't have to worry about it.

Can't say that I can relate to your experiences, Son of Numenor. I always thought that the movies were flawless masterpieces and they were my favourites for a long time. But I haven't seen them in a while. So, once I do (should probably be some time next January) I'll get back to you on that one. I'm intrigued, because in the span of time since I last watched the films, I have become quite a harsh movie critic myself, looking at everything from acting to editing.

[Lalwendë]

Remembering something from my A Level Economics lessons (which is surprising seeing as I hated the subject) it's just what they call The Law Of Diminishing Returns. For example, you fancy some chocolate cake and would happily chew off your own arm to get some so you scoff a monster sized piece. It was gooood, so you scoff another monster sized piece, that was good too, not as good, but still good. Then you have another monster sized piece and it was alright. Then you see there's one slice left and you think you may as well eat it (what? are you bulimic or something?) rather than stuff it back in the cake tin and it was....well, it made you feel a bit sick, actually...

You get this with just about anything enjoyable unfortunately. And films suffer it more than books as you are passively watching someone else's 'head pictures' whereas with a book you've got to actively work at it to get the 'head pictures' and there is at least an outside chance they might be different each time...

[Eönwë]

Originally Posted by Azaelia of Willowbottom

I think that the trick is to see that you're not exactly the same anymore...but the movie is going to be exactly the same. But that that's allright, and it shouldn't have to be anything different than it is in that moment. Instead of trying to see it through old eyes, watch it through the new ones. I think that the dissatisfaction happens when you try to reconcile what you know it SHOULD be with what it is.

I think I understand what you're saying. And I think that when you watch the movies, because they're always the same and they already are "made", whereas the books are in you're mind, they seem different.

I would say that because you're always changing, things appear different and you perceive things differently and focus on different things. With the book, because it allows you to form your own pictures, how you see Middle-Earth may shift, maybe so subtly that you can't realise it, but you see different things and read it slightly differently. The good thing about books is that because you as the reader are actively reading and imagining the story, it fits your imagination the way you want it to fit.

In the movies, however, it is not your imagination, but Peter Jackson's. It never changes. This means that even when your views shift slightly, you can't change the focus of the movie, as it is always identical. This is why I think that when you watch it, it can appear different.


That is my general outsider-view on the situation, because I saw the movies first, which means that my original ideas of the characters (except for Gollum- I had read the Hobbit before) were modelled on the movie characters.

So for me, the movies are a sort-of alternate Middle-Earth. If I just look at them separately, they are good, and I find that I can ignore most of the faults (though a few are just horrible, like the Gandalf vs. WK scene, which I would have hated even if I hadn't read the book first, and the Frodo - Flying Nazgul scene, to name a few).

They still do have some of the magic of the first time, but obviously, as I think Lalwendë meant, a little goes every time you watch it. But the music and the scenery does carry you (well at least me) into it. As alatar said, the setting, and your feelings towards it (For example, excitement when it first came out) are also quite important.


Also, remember: The movies were much better than any other LOTR movies ever made, and we often take that for granted.

[Mithalwen]

I think they are films that have to be seen in the cinema. I quite enjoyed them there when the visuals and music washing over. Seeing them on a very small screen over the past few Saturdays they haven't really held my attention. Some good moments I went and cooked and did washing up rather than watch the battle scenes. The costumes are still good and some of the performances but the CGI hasn't aged well and the scaling is really bad at times.

I can't understand why the listing claims there are too many goodbyes though since all but the grey havens were eliminated.

[Mnemosyne]

Most recently I watched Fellowship with the Rifftracks going on in the background. I'm pretty sure that this has more or less ruined my ability to take certain portions of the film seriously (which watching it with a crowd of snarkers already had... it's just that these guys are getting paid to make fun of them!).

But it's reached an all-time low now. Even touching scenes such as Sam running down to the Anduin to reach Frodo's boat in time have been superimposed with cries of "Bacon! Bacon!" (Which, granted, is very hobbity... but rather ruins the touching display of loyalty.)

I wonder if there is a way to get a sort of filmic detox, or if I was doomed the moment I reread the books after the films came out?

[Mithalwen]

Try taking it seriously after seeing this one:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oCYbRUmzIb0