WW XXXX - The scouring of the Shire, vol.2

[Volo]

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

That being said, I almost hope Agan's a wolf, because otherwise two innocents are probably going to miss Day5 and it doesn't sound nice at all. And remember what I said about the wolves growing bolder.

She can "play" via telephone with Noggie

[Nogrod]

Day4 is over.

Menel's death coming up...

[Nogrod]

Some of the hobbits told the others they were not feeling particularily well after they discovered what was left of Kath Woodyend. So it was decided that they went ahead to the Green Dragon while the rest gathered the pieces of Kath they could find for the burial.

When those taking part in the funeral procedures finally came to the Green Dragon they were faced with a peculiar sight.

Lommy Baggins was banging her head against the wall and just next beside her Brinn Burrows was kicking herself mumbling quietly “If I’m wrong this time I’ll eat my socks...”

At the table of adults Volo Proudfoot sat alone repeating a mantra to himself: “I wish I was dead... too much influence... my head’s going to explode...”

“Mine too!” yelled the Baggins and banged her head to the wall once again.

At the elder’s table there were two round-shouldered figures who were eating different clothing items. Farael Twofoot was just eating his hat and passed the tomatosauce to Menel Furryface who tried to gnaw through his sandal.

In the middle of this The Might of Greenholm sat in the floor scattering ashes to his hair and wailing “I’m a total fool... I’ll vote for anyone you tell me to vote... I’ll eat my socks if you insist...”

~*~

It was only the second breakfast that brought things back to order and the accusations started to fly once again. And this time it felt like being real.

The Might was heavily suspected from his reckless actions yesterday but also Menel Furryface took his part of the accusations.

Towards the late hours Kuru Shrewthwacker and Farael Twofoot went after each other heatedly enough in the elder’s table. Walking sticks were swang to and fro and the others had to cool the oldtimers down. It seemed age-old feuds were easily reignited in times of trouble.

But in the end it was pretty clear what was the result. It was perhaps even too clear to aid them much in the coming Days... But Menel Furryfoot it was to be this Day.

~*~

Volo Proudfoot stood up and walked to the door. “Just wait a minute. I’ll bring you something I’ve designed toDay”.

He went outside the door and soon everyone heard the clatter and rattling. Finally he emerged from the doorway dragging an iron cage with him. Menel went pale just with the sight of it.

“Now this should make the Furryfoot talk! I’ve designed it myself and would like to call it the Iron Hobbitess. You can see the sharpened ironspikes inside... they’re calculated to inflict enough pain for the victim to actually talk as they penetrate his flesh. And if it’s a werewolf we have in there he can’t escape from the cage. What say you?”

Volo looked proud with his invention as the others sat gasping and tried to swallow the idea.

“Okay, inside you go!” called the Might of Greenholm and looked towards Menel.

“Yeah, you should try that one out!” added Shasta of the River and yanked Menel up from his place in the table of elders.

“I’ll give you a hand”, said Brinn and took the other hand of Menel starting to drag him towards the Iron Hobbitess.

Fea Briarpatch and Kuru Shrewthwacker raised up at the same time from the elder’s table and gave a hand in pushing the now screaming Menel inside the cage.

Mac Sandyman had also stood up and came to help tucking Menel’s head inside.

Finally it was Lommy Baggins who slammed the door of the cage close. Volo slipped in the bolt immediately just in case.

Menel howled loudly. He screamed his lungs empty.

The blood was rapidly spreading on the floor.

“Uh-oh... I may have miscalculated the length of the spikes then...”, Volo muttered apologetically.

Menel Furryfoot was dead pierced by the spikes.

He was nothing more than a decent ordinary hobbit.

~*~

The dead:
Nogrod (mod) - Noggie Boffin - beheaded and played soccer with on Night1
Nerwen (ordo) - Nerwen Hornblower - jumped to the river not to force anyone to kill another hobbit on Day1
Valier (ordo) - Vallen FurryFoot - skinned, grilled and served as a breakfast on Night2
Rikae (ordo) – Rikae Took - left the Hobbitton to find aid from somewhere in the middle of Day2
A Little Green (the Breath) - Lilla Greenhand - beaten to death by the hobbits on Day2
Legate of Amon Lanc (ordo) - Legate Sackville-Baggins - sacked, bagged & hanged on Night3
Satansaloser2005 (ordo) - Sally Shortbrush - rammed dead with a table on Day3
Mormegil (the ranger of the Shire) - Mormegil Harrybelly - stabbed to death on Day3
Kath (the seer of the shire) – Kath Woodyend - slashed into pieces during a round game on Night4
Meneltarmacil (ordo) - Lupo Furryface - pierced dead inside the Iron Hobbitess on Day4

The living:
Thinlómien - Lommy Baggins
Aganzir - Agan Sackville-Baggins
Volo - Justy Proudfoot
Macalaure - Mac Sandyman
The Might - Might of Greenholm
Feanor of the Peredhil - Belladonna Briarpatch
Brinniel - Brinn Burrows
Farael – Farael Twofoot
Shastanis Althreduin – Shasta of the River
Kuruharan -Kuru Shrewthwacker

Night5 begins.

Wolves plan forwards... and remember to send your kill to Legate as well.

Good Night!

[Nogrod]

Day5 will be postponed with 24 hours.

Day5 will start at 9PM GMT on Saturday 8th of December.


Wolves take your time... ordinary Shirefolk concentrate.

[Nogrod]

”Something the Flame said yesterNight got me thinking and I believe I’ve found a stinger that will really offer a challenge”, the Drop said as the werewolves gathered around the mallorn once again.

“I’m all ears”, the Flame responded immediately.

“I’m afraid I have no choice...”, the Shard muttered.

“Okay then Shard. Now are you a werewolf due to your own will? By your own choosing that is?” the Drop asked innocentishly.

“Of course not”, the Shard snapped back. “But what do these hypotheticals have to do with anything? I’m a werewolf whether it’s my own choosing or not and that’s what counts.”

“Ahh, but in morality it counts... and elsewhere too. Be patient my friend”, the Drop answered and continued. “So as a werewolf – not from your own choosing – could you decide or will to decide not to kill anyone?” The Drop grinned.

“Well...” the Shard managed to mumble.

“R-rright! That’s the point I’ve been looking for!” the Flame rejoiced. “If you can’t help it then you can’t be blamed on it either! You can’t say it’s good or bad to breathe as you just can’t help breathing...”

“And it’s even more radical than that”, the Drop announced solemnly. “We’re beyond goor and evil my brothers!”

“Just a moment... I think I’m getting your point, but...”, the Shard thought out aloud with half-voice. “But if you’re putting forward a thesis that says that we act according to what is our nature and perform quite well with it... it would also mean that we’re... good werewolves!”

“Good werewolves beyond good and evil?” the Flame chuckled, “Well look at the scoreboard. Definitevely good, not beyond anything else but a poor performance...”

“Please Flame. We're serious now”, the Drop put in.

“Okay, let me put it to you then”, the Shard said now clearly upbeat, following the train of his own thoughts. “I’ll make a new distinction for us. So what comes to our essence as what we are by nature - and which we can't choose - we’re good. Like a knife is good when it performs the tasks that make it a knife well... and as werewolves we’re the killers and we kill effectively so we’re good werewolves. But as moral subjects we are beyond good and evil because we have no choice but to do what we do...”

“That was pretty impressive! I was thinking exactly something like that!” the Drop applauded the Shard even if he realised his pun wasn’t the best one.

“Wait a minute then!” the Flame broke in. “Following this theory of yours I mean... What would you have to say about the hobbits then?” The Flame smiled widely.

The two were astonished enough for the Flame to take the word back to him.

“So my turn then? Now what kind of creature is a hobbit... a good hobbit?” the Flame grinned barely able to control a laughter.

“Generous... laughing..., friendly, warmhearted?” the Drop began.

“I see what you mean!” the Shard said. “So also peaceful, non-violent, never killing any one of his kin...”

“Ditto! And look at our hobbits here: quarrelsome, accusatory, ill-wishing, rude... and to top it all more than ready to kill each other!” the Flame paraded.

“Very bad hobbits indeed... both in essence and from the moral point of view!” the Drop yelled as he understood what the Flame meant.

“So, we’re the goodies and they’re the baddies!” the Shard underlined the proposition on the air.

After that there was no return. All the three werewolves roared with laughter and patted each other on the shoulders.

“Oh, my stomach hurts!” the Drop managed to wail in between the laughters.

~*~

“Okay then. We goodies have work to do”, the Shard reminded the others eventually, smiling widely.

“Yeah, let’s do it in a way that fits our new identity”, the Flame grinned.

“How about that one?” the Drop pointed at a gorgeous hobbithole some hundred yards from them.

“Isn’t that the Baggins? A fine pick I’d say...” the Shard nodded and followed the Drop.

“Bring her here to the mallorn, I’ve an idea... and bring some rope will'ya?” the Flame called after the two others who were already on their way.

~*~

The Shard and the Drop brought Lommy Baggins to the mallorn. She had stopped fighting back a long ago as she had realised she was no match for the two giant werewolves. The Flame then presented them with his plan holding two fireworks left by Gandalf in his claws.

“Now, here’s what we do... We’ll tie her arms to her body and then two of these rockets to her sides... and maybe that big one to her back”.

“Excellent idea! I’ve always loved fireworks!”

“And no more lullabies or round games... I’ve never quite liked them anyhow”, the Shard commented.

~*~

The hobbits woke that morning to the sound of fireworks going off. And as they went to their windows this was what they saw.



The Day rose just moments after the fireworks display was over. There were small pieces of hobbit everywhere as well as parts of clothing. The smell of sulphur still remained in the air. Lommy Baggins was nowhere to be seen...

~*~

The dead:
Nogrod (mod) - Noggie Boffin - beheaded and played soccer with on Night1
Nerwen (ordo) - Nerwen Hornblower - jumped to the river not to force anyone to kill another hobbit on Day1
Valier (ordo) - Vallen FurryFoot - skinned, grilled and served as a breakfast on Night2
Rikae (ordo) – Rikae Took - left the Hobbitton to find aid from somewhere in the middle of Day2
A Little Green (the Breath) - Lilla Greenhand - beaten to death by the hobbits on Day2
Legate of Amon Lanc (ordo) - Legate Sackville-Baggins - sacked, bagged & hanged on Night3
Satansaloser2005 (ordo) - Sally Shortbrush - rammed dead with a table on Day3
Mormegil (the ranger of the Shire) - Mormegil Harrybelly - stabbed to death on Day3
Kath (the seer of the shire) – Kath Woodyend - slashed into pieces during a round game on Night4
Meneltarmacil (ordo) - Lupo Furryface - pierced dead inside the Iron Hobbitess on Day4
Thinlómien (ordo) - Lommy Baggins - blown to the skies with fireworks on Night5

The living:
Aganzir - Agan Sackville-Baggins
Volo - Justy Proudfoot
Macalaure - Mac Sandyman
The Might - Might of Greenholm
Feanor of the Peredhil - Belladonna Briarpatch
Brinniel - Brinn Burrows
Farael – Farael Twofoot
Shastanis Althreduin – Shasta of the River
Kuruharan -Kuru Shrewthwacker

Day5 begins...

Three against six.

[Macalaure]

Alright, I know this will maybe annoy you a little right now, but...

I TOLD YOU SO!

That just had to be said.


In the light of Menel's death, the Might looks even worse. I think Shasta is finally worth a serious look now. Brinniel's vote is suspicious, because it destroyed all efforts of looking for better lynch candidates. Kuru, Fea, Farael, Aganzir - there's at least one wolf hiding among those, but I don't know who it is. There's a lot to be done today.

It might be suspicious that I'm going to drop all my suspicions against Volo now, since he just started to suspect me, but the way he bases so much of his points against me on the wolfdom of Menel it is rather obvious that he didn't know Menel's role - because of the time he posted them (he would have known that much of his points were obsolete after Menel's death).

Originally Posted by Volo

And I don't like these "suspicious based only on factor X", it doesn't give the whole picture and Mac's real opinion.

I used those lists as a very short way to sum up what I looked at just before. I think I usually gave my overall opinions nearer to the deadline - by the time they had formed.
And about concentrating on you indecisively: The first two days I was unsure of you, so of course I was indecisive. Later, I lacked any support for your lynching by the rest of the village.

I hope you're not planning to concentrate on me too much today. Even if you're certain of my guilt, don't forget there are two more wolves out there.

[Farael]

This is looking difficult.... the wolves have played us very skillfuly!!! I still think that The Might is too wolvish... and thus, probably a wolf. But I've been so wrong this time around that I'm starting to get paranoid.

I really think Kuruharan made a lot of weak accusations, then I reacted to that and he answered with the typical "oh, you are defending yourself thus you ought to be a wolf". I still say that I was attacking him, not defending myself. Look it on your own and make your choice, but I believe Kuru is a wolf.

Furthermore, he was quiet and reserved throughout the whole game, and then BAM he's all over me. Smelled blood and went for the kill.

Problem is, even if The Might and Kuruharan are both wolves, I'm at a loss as to who the third one is. I'd love to hear a good case against Shasta 'cps I haven't seen it myself... and even though I know it's frustrating when one's too busy to play but still doing their best, Fea has flown completely under the radar, and she's smart enough to pull it off.

Still, before going into a witch hunt for the third wolf I cannot find, I'd much rather get rid of Might and Kuruwolf.

[Brinniel]

Well, obviously I was wrong about Menel being a wolf. I admit I can't help but feel more than frustrated at that and the idea of how much these wolves are manipulating us. I miscalculated yesterDay- we should actually have two more Days to catch one wolf, which means two more chances. But it doesn't help that a third of us are baddies toDay, which will make things even more difficult.

I said yesterDay I thought there was at least one wolf among Menel and Might. My mind hasn't changed. Menel is dead and innocent...which leaves Might. I am quite ready to lynch him toDay, but I won't be so hasty to vote for him just yet. Because I first want to consider other possible werewolves. There are two of them (three if I'm wrong about Might), and I'm really unsure on who they might be.

I've reached a point where no one seems innocent anymore and everyone looks suspicious. It might make me more paranoid, but perhaps that is best so that I no longer let anyone slip under-the-radar.

Here's some first thoughts on everyone:

Aganzir: I don't like her sudden violent attacks on me. She's the one who began suspecting me and somehow drew up a lot of support. She is wrong because I know I'm innocent, even if I can't prove it to anyone, but I'm still not sure whether her attacks are that of a wolf's. If they are, she is being a very bold wolf.

Volo: I began to suspect him less yesterDay mainly because I thought Menel was a wolf. But now that Menel's been proven innocent, I'm beginning to suspect him a bit more. I'm feeling very uneasy about Volo; I think I had good reasons to suspect him previously, and I might've let him off the hook too easily. I definitely need to take a closer look at him.

Mac: I've found him innocentish for most of the game, but perhaps I shouldn't let him slip by so easily. After all, in previous games I've been so sure that certain people were innocent, only to find out they were wolves. He's definitely not the most suspicious, but I would still like to watch him more closely for now on.

Might: Guilty. I think we've been too quick to overlook him and we can't disregard the fact that his newbie behaviour might also be wolfish behaviour. Acting like a confused newbie is the easiest cover-up. The other wolves might even be encouraging it because it's confusing us so much. And I still can't see why Kath wouldn't dream of him when she kept him on her suspicious list all the Days she was alive. Might just feels guilty to me. Of course, I won't deny I have this fear that I could be horribly wrong like I was with Menel. If I am, I really will eat my socks!

Fea: I'm really worried about how Fea has somehow managed to slip under-the-radar. I've never actually really played with her so I don't know her style so well, but from what I've heard, she can be quite fearsome as a wolf. I think she's definitely someone everyone should start watching more closely. I haven't taken much time looking at her posts, and perhaps I should.

Farael: I can't deny I'm uneasy about how every Day he attacks one person and votes for them early on, even though he manages to stick around until close to the deadline. It's suspicious....but then again, would a wolf be so obvious?

Shasta: He's our only quiet player during this game and therefore has managed to slide under the radar. At this point, we can't let anyone do that, no matter how little they've posted. Again, he's another I need to look at more closely. I admit I've overlooked him up until this point.

Kuru: His uncertainty about things always seemed to be a bit odd. Then his post #491 really throws me...I stated my reasons for it earlier. I don't like his attack on Farael at all. Farael may have been arguing his post, and while his name might have been mentioned in it, I don't think his argument was all that defensive...he actually did make some good points. So when Kuru titles his next post, "Did I touch a nerve?" I feel he's almost provoking Farael.

So right now I'm going to go with saying I suspect everyone. I just need to figure out which people I suspect more. I definitely need to take a better look at everyone's posts from yesterDay (and even before), but that will have to wait until later when I have more time.

Werewolf: Guilty until proven innocent.

EDIT: X-ed with Farael

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Finally, some substance from me. It's lucky it's the weekend and I have time to do this! I'll edit my thoughts in as I read the posts. I am having to get rid of smileys though.

Originally Posted by Volo

Urgh... That was grotesque.

What was the Ranger thinking last Night, really, drinking tea. Wasn't it mighty obvious that if the calling came then one of us would die. And wasn't it even more mightily obvious that poor ol' Noggie would be the one to die. After all, he was the wisest of us all and had the ability to see the evildoers with only one glance. Not a good start, wouldn't you think? Lazy Rangers shouldn't be allowed to live in our proud village. Drinking tea in the middle of the night, phew...

Fluffy banter.

Originally Posted by Volo

It might be a bit nasty to say, but usually if a quiet person isn't lynched on Day1, Day2 will be more chaotic and in the end the poor quiet fellow will be lynched then just to be on the sure side as on Day3 we discuss the louder ones more. That is if the person lynched on Day1 isn't Wolf. (Assumptions, sadly.) I will lynch a quiet one rather than a loud one if I can't form a true suspicion, which I hope won't be the case.

Speak up! While I show bad example and retreat to sleep...

I don't disagree with the facts, but I disagree with the attitude.

Originally Posted by Volo

You're forgetting that the highly analytial discussion doen't start on its own. You wouldn't have had anything to analyse if the quiet/loud discussion hadn't started before your post. I agree that the quiet/loud discussion itself rarelly leads to anything, but it does make people louder, and thence easier to analyse.

As much as you have said, I don't feel too safe with you, Rikae. The stuff you have is not special - except for the fact that you were the first to bring up such a post - anyone who bothers can write an analysis on each post and sounds reasonable, even a Wolf. And this is what a Wolf would want to write, because quite often such posts bring followers and trust. Some players don't have the nerve not to trust anybody except themselves and it's the easiest to trust a person who makes more sense than others. I hope I said this clearly.

I agree with you on Valier. She was the first person who gave out a Wolf-feeling while I was reading through the thread. There's not much to go on, but somehow both of us got the feeling that she might be a Wolf. The "lurking around" sounds nasty and somehow I have a feeling that the ones to give clear times when they can't play are Wolves.




Here's what I was trying to say:
If people are unsure of whom to lynch on Day1 and end up lynching a loud Ordo, the person most likely to be lynched on Day2 is quiet. And probably also an Ordo - like Rikae pointed out - because the quiet/loud discussion won't end on Day1 but will continue on Day2 leading to none very thought decisions. Quiet players who survive to the later Days are more safe, because there will be much more to analyse about the loud players and Day3 -> is known for analysing and not quiet/loud discussion.
That is just an assumption based on how things usually go and I'm not saying that lynching a quiet person on Day1 is a solution to everything. All players aren't sure of whom to vote on Day1 and often claim their vote random. I think Day1 "random" votes should rather be directed at quiet players, because otherwise they'll be directed at the quiet players on later Days for paranoia more than clear thoughts.



Except Gil-Galad. Good point though!


Legate, you make me suspect you (#33, 34) . I know you're a friendly player, but this is seems a bit too friendly, although I too would like to thank for good posts... The feeling that you're backing up others more than showing yourself is what makes me wonder. Please, would you try to say your thoughts a bit clearer.


It seems that the suspicion is leaning to Valier. Maybe what she said was just badly phrased, but she's one of suspects too.


#36, #37: I'd trust an Innocent Rikae's gut feelings about Mac. Which isn't saying much at this point...


Brinniel is a question mark for now.


EDIT: Xd with Legate

Suspects Rikae, Valier, and Legate here. All known innocents. Is unsure about Brinniel.

Originally Posted by Volo

And it would work too if all the Innocents kept quiet. The more we talk, the more the Wolves have to talk not to show out - and that way they do give us substance to read on later Days. No, Fea, I don't agree with you - many players have "Fenris Wolf" in their sigs and that itself proves that Day1s are not for outright assuming that random votes (or based on anything that they really shouldn't be based, such as things that don't have anything to do with this current game) are the best solution.

Originally Posted by Volo

I started my thoughts about you a bit too harshly - saying that I suspect you more than others was a bit unfair. It just bothered me that you had no clear thoghts on anybody, everybody you mentioned going both ways (flip-flopping?). But like Fea said - and I agree with her about this - there are no hard facts to base your thoughts on. I forgot that provoking you and your guts doesn't work...

Then again, in your last post you say it again - "Good! That was exactly what I wanted to hear from you. Thank you.", well what do you think of it if it's good enough to think about?


EDIT: Xd with Legate.

He sounds apologetic here. If I remember correctly, this becomes important later.

Originally Posted by Volo

I'm not siding with Nerwen now, but that's also what I felt like saying after you stared at me. Now is Legate just right and has water-proof points or does he hold the voice of Saruman once again?

I guess this would answer my question.

Well, not good enough as it was spotted... Now this makes me want to lean to lynching Valier and finding out what she is. I'll try to take the feeling critically.


EDIT: Xd with Lommy and Aganzir.

The first sentence of this post strikes me as wolfish; as if Volo is distancing himself somehow. Of course, I don't know how valid this point is, as Nerwen was later proved innocent.

Originally Posted by Volo

Might I ask you when did I agree with her? When I said that there are no hard facts on Day1? Yes, I did agree with that, but that is all with which I agreed. I do not prefer random votes, basicly because they're unfair and because they leave no trails - only by leaving trails can the Innocents get the Wolves to leave trails as they follow behind.


Legate's talk is too subtle and it leaves an open path for him to change the meaning of his words later on, but I see nothing wrong with suspecting Rikae. I have no way of proving it, but I wrote my post about Rikae before I read Legate's and decided not to change it when I got to it.

I'm not happy with voting Valier, but I haven't found any better reasons to vote anybody else. I hope she will return before any bandwagons will take place.

Saying "I'm not happy with voting Valier" is a clear contradiction with the above post... and the post two below this one.

Originally Posted by Volo

++Valier

explanation in next post.

Originally Posted by Volo

Ok, sorry for that. I haven't had time to read the third page at all as I just came late from a film, but I noticed that if I want to have any chance of lynching the person I suspect, I'd have to do it very quickly.

Valier's post #70 is a bit too desperate.

I'm sorry that you had too little time...

Originally Posted by Volo

A very quickly formed list mainly to avoid being killied during the night for not suspecting clearly

Leaning Good:
Thinlómien
Meneltarmacil
Macalaure
The Might
Mormegil

Leaning Neutral (unknown):
Aganzir
Feanor of the Peredhil
Brinniel
Satansaloser2005
Farael
Shastanis Althreduin
Kuruharan
Kath
Nerwen

Leaning Evil:
Legate of Amon Lanc
A Little Green
Valier
Rikae

It's a common wolf tactic to have a list with one wolf partner on the suspicious list. Looking at Volo's "Leaning Evil:" list, we can see that A Little Green is the only wolf there, as Rikae, Valier, and Legate are all proven innocent.

Originally Posted by Volo

I'm probably the most skilled person judging Lommy (and Nogrod, and Aganzir) wrong, but that sounds as what I said and it was from an Innocent's mouth.

Tomorrow will bring much much more light, this was a good Day to be looked at from tomorrow.

EDIT: Obviously - Xd with Lommy.

Originally Posted by Volo

Urgh, again.

This explanation looks very very improbable, which is not saying that there can't be quiet Wolves around.

Lommy is once again hurrying to understand how the Wolves thought - like when she herself was a Wolf. But since the thought of Valier's assumed Seerdom also passes my head (like when Lommy was Wolf... ) I won't condemn her for this.

I have two ideas about Valier's death, although I'll also take the other ideas brought up into account.

1. Valier was thought to be the Seer. (Assuming what the Wolves might have thought -) She might have felt danger during Day1 and already then decided to leave hints about her dream, as her vote for morm was a somewhat wierd and random-ish otherwise. I think that morm might be a Wolf if this is the case.

2. Valier was simply lynched for not leaving a trail and because at least one of the Wolves is sporty. Such players are in my opinion Lommy, Legate, Mac, morm, Fea (?), Brin, Kath, Kuru, Rikae (?) and Aganzir (?) (- questionmarks are signs of doubt if the players are "sporty" enough for the deed). In this case there's probably at least two Wolves in this mightily broad list - which can be reduced in time as new evidence arrives and don't mean everybody dying.


I'll go to sleep now, I have some ideas about who might be who, but I'm plain too tired to form a post about them.


EDIT: Xd with everything since morm

This strikes me as disavowing too heartily Valier's death, when he was one of her main detractors on Day 1. It also strikes me as laying the foundation for suspicion on morm (though I can hardly throw stones at this.)

Originally Posted by Volo

Ok, more stuff - quickly:

1. I doubt that Valier was killed for looking like a Seer if morm isn't a Wolf, so in that case it would be just to frame him. Which leads us to nothing.


2. Rikae, why did you drop your style (voted self on Day1 in her first post, was it?) from the preveous game so totally and completely? Last game you seemed to regard Day1 as a waste of time and now you're so certain that the Wolves can be found by analysis already on Day1. This is just a questing, it has been bothering me.


3. Looking at yesterDay, I'm quite sure that Lommy has been Seered upon. I wouldn't concentrate on her too much toDay. Basicly because I don't suspect her a lot. Post #126 seems genuine at the very least, a Wolf wouldn't have phrased her words so, unless Lommy did a very smart bluff on purpose.


X:d with everything since my preveous post. Now I'm totally offline.

Originally Posted by Volo

Oh, I assure you I was at least as tired when I wrote it. But what I meant is this:
Morm is Innocent and the Wolves know it. Valier attacks morm in a way that can be interpreted as an attack by a Seer. But the Wolves know that Valier didn't dream of morm if she dreamt at all. And except that I see very little in her saying that she'd be the Seer. Concluding that the Wolves didn't think of Valier as the Seer.
The problem is that this talk about how the Wolves saw Valier lead to nothing. It is fun to bring your own thoughts about how the Wolves thought when they chose their kill, but I don't see how it can discussed at Day and turn out productive. For the simple reason that the Wolves might bluff, double-bluff, shoot the darkness, plan something very complicated, kill a certain type of player. And the Innocents have no way of knowing what the Wolves thought until the end of game.
Ok, that might have been a bit overreacted, but toDay is concentrated too much on what the Wolves might have thought at Night, it's nearly as unproductive and confusing as the quiet/loud discussion. As Farael already mentioned, by the way.
(I personally think that they chose Valier because she'd leave no trail.)

By "sporty" in meant that they'd rather kill quiet players than players know to be dangerous. I'll try not to say something as cryptic again.


Now at last to what I think about who the Wolves might be.

(There's a list of my preveous suspicions in post #129.)


Sally: Now she sure hunts morm! She constantly flirts with the idea of being a Wolf, which seems like something a Wolf wouldn't do, but it's driving me crazy. I'm capable of imagining a Wolf who does that, even a newbie Wolf - no, especially a newbie Wolf. Sally appologised that she wouldn't be productive, and truly, she hasn't been productive. I'm thinking of she might be a Wolf who thinks of being very far from being lynched - there's not enough try there, as if her appologisive tone is an excuse for just being around.
The more I read her posts, the more I feel that that's our Wolf.

Green: This looks very suspicious. Why would she concentrate on morm so much at that time if they weren't Wolves? Seems very out of place. Instead of "what did I do wrong", a "what did my partner do wrong".
Post #123 is on the whole very suspicious:
1. It feels like Green is voting just because she has to vote and not because she really suspects Nerwen, her reason being rather odd to me (Well, then again I don't really understand why Nerwen was lynched in the first place - although lynching Valier would have been no better).
2. I'm not completely sure about this, but the way Green turns her suspicion at Lommy in the same post as she votes another person is worrying. I've seen many Innocents doing this, so I can't decide if this should be taken into account.

morm: I haven't looked too closely at toDays posts of his as there simply hasn't been enough time, but he is linked to both of my main suspects and that makes me suspect his as well.


Leaning Good:
Because Legate and Lommy agree with me, I don't think that they are Wolves. If we are wrong, I'll look at them more closely. Both feel Innocent toDay.
Mac
The Might
Fea

I don't have any ideas formed about these at the moment:
Meneltarmacil
Aganzir
Farael
Shastanis Althreduin
Kuruharan

There's something nasty there, I'll see to it when I have the time:
Kath
Brinniel


I'm late for a meeting and I Xd with everything since #188.

Originally Posted by Volo

Popping in to answer, haven't read all. Family'll throw me out if I don't go party Chrismas with them.


Simple. 1. I think that they're honest because I conclude as they do independadly. For proof look at my post at about 11PM GMT where I promise to show my ideas and my preveous post which is nearly a cross-post with Legate and Lommy so I couldn't have searched for my thoughts about you and Sally after Legates post so fast.
2. A lot will be cleared about them if our suspects are Innocent or Wolves. Which will reveal a lot (to me) about both Lommy's and Legate's roles. I find it stupid to suspect them at this point.

Originally Posted by Volo

About who are suspicious.
Yes, dear, I reserved a special place above the list for you, a place called "suspicious".
I like the "incredibly clever" part. The only thing here than makes me suspect you less is than you're a newbie, but Wolves frequently vote eachother, otherwise finding them would be much easier as we would know outright who can't be a Wolf after we find who was a Wolf. Since morm was in no real danger of being lynched, it was safe to vote him to cover tracks. And if he is in real danger of being lynched, it's easy to hide among the votes as your vote can't save him anyway. (Umm... Why am I explaining these things anyway... I find you suspicious and if you're a Wolf you probably understand it anyway.)

I find it funny that you would say something like this as you have pretty much trusted me the whole game and agreed with nearly everything I have said, or at least told me as much. And why doesn't my trust for you and Legate turn on such alarms? The thought that you have noticed that I trust people who agree with me (Heck, I even said so myself in the preveous post.) and used it against us comes into my mind.
But I am not going to vote you or Legate toDay. I'm very sure that tomorrow will make these things much clearer.

And another note about Lommy & Legate: Even if I'm wrong in trusting them, I find it extremely improbable that both of them are Wolves, there is too much agreement between them, even if their lists aren't completely alike. And since there is no Cobbler in this game, I'm sure than at least one of them does deserve our trust.


I'll leave this at this and move to look into Kath's, Brinniel's and Mac's (Since you asked for it...) souls or something like that.

Originally Posted by Volo

So many players could be called under-the-radar flyers. Not that they aren't noticed, but they are not discussed. Probably that's good for now as this large number of players is taking a toll on me, I really wouldn't want to participate in the game I modded.

Kath leaves me completely baffled. And the problem is that she seemes to leave pretty much everybody else baffled as well, even Fea. Mac would appear the only one suspecting her. I don't remember an Innocent Kath doing that, at the very least she has been suspicious. Since it is the case, I hope to see more of her in the Days to come.


Brinniel:
Flashback to Lily's (Haha, funny, I'll use that, although it would help us to decide one name for each player, that would help using "search" a lot.) post. That's all.
Really - except for her analysis, which is obviously very unrational *joke* - she looks rational, useful - although I don't find much use in summaries like that, except when I write them myself, sorry Brin - and Innocent. As for Kath, I'd give her more time.



Shalln't, I really hope that is forgotten as it is. But if you insist - please don't - I will explain.

Originally Posted by Volo

It's either Lily or Sally for me, but since voting Sally would be rather risky and hurried at this point...

++ A Little Green


EDIT: Xd with Mac

Originally Posted by Volo

I made a vote chart, I hope it is understandable. I'll post it differently if it's too confusing.
*=dead
(i)=known Innocent (in my case known only to me)
(w)=known Wolf


Day1 votes:

Kath - Might 1

Nerwen* (i) - Lommy 1

Valier* (i) - morm 1

Might - Might 2

Rikae* (i) - Nerwen* (i) 1

Sally - morm 2

morm - Valier* (i) 1

Fea - morm 3

Brinn - Nerwen* (i) 2

Legate* (i) - Nerwen* (i) 3

Volo (i) - Valier* (i) 2

Agan - Nerwen* (i) 4

Mac - Nerwen* (i) 5

Menel - morm 4

Lily* (w) - Nerwen* (i) 6

Lommy - Nerwen* (i) 7

Kuru - Nerwen* (i) 8

Farael - no vote

Shasta - no vote


Day2 votes:

Sally - morm 1

Farael - Rikae* (i) 1

Shasta - Volo (i) 1

morm - Volo (i) 2

Fea - Lily* (w) 1

Kath - Lily* (w) 2

Agan - Lily* (w) 3

Menel - morm 2

Volo (i) - Lily* (w) 4

Legate* (i) - Sally 1

Brinn - Lily* (w) 5

Mac - Lily* (w) 6

Lily* (w) - Volo (i) 3

Might - Lily* (w) 7

Lommy - Lily* (w) 8

Rikae* (i) - no vote

Kuru - no vote



This leads to a different chart which I don't think is confusing:

1. People who have voted only for players whose roles we don't know yet:
Sally, Menel

2. People who have vote for only Innocent players (including me):
morm, Lily* (w), Kuru, Farael, Shasta

A. People who have voted for a Wolf (in this order):
Fea, Kath, Agan, Volo, Brinn, Mac, Might, Lommy

B. People who have not voted for a Wolf:
Sally, Farael, Shasta, morm, Menel, Legate* (i), Lily* (w), Kuru


The most suspicious players to me otherwise (Sally, morm, Lily*) seem to have entered the 1. and 2. categories.

I'm more and more sure of Lommy's Innocence. Apart from her I'm rather sure than Aganzir is also Innocent. The other Lily-voters look good too.


Xd with everything toDay.

Originally Posted by Volo

Like I've said it before, I feel that Sally is a Wolf. Reasons:
And besides she doesn't seem to be sad at all for not being productive, on the contry she smiles a lot and I have a feeling that she simply doesn't care for the survival of the Village.

What I don't want is a bandwagon starting from the very morning, because the earlier we vote the less of the Day we use to discuss things.

And like I've said before, morm has been targeted by both Lily (Kuru has it here.) and Sally (I mean her constant suspicion and votes) in rather wierd situations.


I found a little more:
Lily's post about The Might doesn't look like something about a Wolf partner. It is more like "trying too hard" to look helpful to me.
The Might rises higher on my Innocent list.

Aganzir suspects Lily quite strongly here. Again, I don't feel a Wolf partner would have done that to a friend so early. I seem to recall that this is the strongest suspicion on Lily on Day1. Correct me if I'm wrong.
Aganzir stayes high and Innocent.


I have very little clue of who might be the fourth Wolf if I'm right about Sally and morm. Probably not Fea. I'd say Menel or Farael, but I'll not get too certain about it.

It's late and I should go to sleep. Xd with everything since #285.

Originally Posted by Volo

I can't see any effort in that post what so ever. At that point the only use of such Wolf is to cause confusion. It may have been a wolf-on-wolf but just as equally it might have been a wolf-on-innocent (Except that I know that it was wolf-on-innocent.).
I'm not saying that they look Innocent because they voted for Lily. Sure thing Wolves vote Wolves, but I just suspected the other players more.

I nearly totally, because they are pretty impossible to organise in advance, because it needs the whole village's co-operation. Though if I there is a chance of lynching both morm and Sally, I'd take it.

To me you are making no sense now. I with such a serious suspicion I'd dig out a fellow Wolf and lynch her instead of an (would-be-)Innocent Sally (or morm, but Sally was more lynchable.). At the end of the Day changing the tide to get Sally lynched would probably been possible.


Farael looks much more Innocent to me now that I've gone through his posts. He has talked general sense as well as accusing in a way that doesn't look Wolf-like in the least - I'm referring to his suspicion about Lommy. It generates genuinly and seems to fall back genuinly.

About Menel I can't form a clear idea. He at the same time stays with the flow and tosses in wild conspiracy theories. I don't like either of these a lot. He does manage to make his words look more Innocent than Wolf.


Innocent:
Lommy
Farael
Aganzir

Innocentish:
Might
Fea
Kuru

Unsure:
Menel
Mac
Brinn
Kath
Shasta

Wolf:
Sally
morm

Originally Posted by Volo

A long defencive post from the beginning of Day3 to post #371 because I don't find any good points about me, sorry. It holds nearly all posts that include my name, missing only a part of Farael’s post and Mac’s vote – I think. I will cross-post with everything since #371.



Why would have I killed my main suspects of Day1 were I a Wolf? Valier would have been a good Day2 lynch. Legate I trusted fully on Day2, why would I have killed a supporter like that?

Like I’ve said there was no effort at all in Lily’s vote, she was already dead by then and knew that I wouldn’t be lynched. She could have voted anybody at all.








1. A Wolf may PM during the Night, and they frequently do so. It is a great chance to tell fellow Wolves how to play in certain situations. Did she have valid arguments for anybody else I wonder?
2. Why would a Wolf pursue a fellow Wolf already on Day2 and kill her when she is quite safe and excited about the game?





I totally agree, by the way. I’m pretty easy with Menel also at this moment.



We both know her from RL and would want to help her with her first game. I still don’t see what her vote for me has to do with anything.

Would you please give reasons. Yes, and I dare to ask for reasons now.

I have been protective of morm??



Brinniel's whole post #329.
I have already answers a similar thing. And anyway, what kind of reasoning is that, the ones who vote for the Wolves are probably also Wolves? Wolves win by voting Innocents, not their partners.

Brinn's whole post #330.
That’s more about Menel and here I actually agree with Brinn at places. The problem is that you look like grasping at straws.



Yes, I agree. I thought they looked good because of different reasons, not their votes.

Aganzir's post #349.

Now this is a good thing to say for a Wolf. If Volo isn’t a Wolf, Menel probably isn’t either. Your gut feelings are non better.

Kuru's post #355.

Menel's post #356.Although this is a bit wierdly formed post, I think it will show much about Menel if we know what morm is.





If Menel is found Innocent and morm’s still around, I’d lynch him straight away.



Morm's post #369.This is an alarming post to me. Morm has been suspecting me the whole long time just because of his gut?? And only a while ago when he was asked to why he suspected me he told something about his suspicion – and that was stuff other players said before him. In the end he changes the topic away from why he suspects me to Kuru being suspicious.

Exactly!

Well, I don’t see many valid points about me…

++mormegil

Originally Posted by Volo

No.

Lommy, your mammoth-theory looks interesting, but it'll take time to explore the stuff, so I won't give any thoughts on that for now. What scares me is that you put morm, Sally and Fea as Wolves into the very first post of Day3 (as you Xd with Farael) and now added the Day3 stuff to your analysis. I'll have to dig into it.

Originally Posted by Volo

Of course no! Please, read what I said more carefully. I said that a Wolves may vote Wolves, but it makes no sense for them to sacrifice a member of their secret organsition by giving the first reasons of why he/she should be lynched and generally taking him/her from the "flying over the radar" -state.

If it is clear that a Wolf is suspected and/or there is a good possibility that he/she will be lynched it makes a lot of sense to vote for your partner. Like the votes for Lily.

If a Wolf partner is staying low and it's in a big fuss, then it makes little sense to make her your main suspect and try to convince others of his/her guilt. Such a sacrifice comes with a great prize, and I really doubt Lily wanted to be lynched out of her first game on Day2.

I don't know what you think, but to me what I said makes great sense.


On Day3 the first discussion was about why Valier was killed.

In post #150 Aganzir shows slight suspicion about Lily.

In the next post Lommy shows slight suspicion about Lily (Xing with Aganzir.)

Next post where Lily is suspected is Lommy's #187.

But I was the first to really call her a Wolf (and I Xd with Lommy's #187) in #193.

So I take some pride in getting Lily lynched.

Xd with everything since Brinniel's post to which I refer.

Originally Posted by Volo

Not after this post.

Oh, come on, somebody lynch morm, he doesn't make sense and is a Wolf. Although Sally is also a Wolf.

It's all in my posts, it's all in my posts.

Originally Posted by Volo

My angst yesterDay after the bloodshed:
I wish I was dead. Or at least less influential, my old cobbler self to whom people didn't listen... (Cruel that I was a Cobbler last game.)
YesterDay was surely something I didn't await for and now I'm completely lost. Oh, morm, why didn't you tell us...
Now we should resolve that we won't double lynch ever unless the Seer tells us to.
I trust noone, myself the least...
Most suspicious: Menel, Might, Lommy, Brinn.

Ok, that was history and little attention should be given it.

I'd like to say a few words about Rangers:
Morm should have told us his role yesterDay. A lynched Ranger is one of the worst possible scenarios (only the lynching the Seer being worse).
I wouldn't have voted a person who declared himself the Ranger:
1. The person will probably be killed next Night (but that's better than lynching him).
2. The isn't killed during the Night, because the Wolves want to bluff and make us think that the person isn't the Ranger or the person wants to bluff and isn't the Ranger. I don't see any harm done this way. We don't lynch "the Ranger" unless another Ranger comes to claim the role or the real Ranger dies (or is Dreamed of). If a compeditor appeared we'd know that one of them is a Wolf - then we have to decide.


A few words about our Seer:
Read post #317. It gives the feel that her Day3 dream was morm.
The other dreams can be Brinn, Might and/or Menel. I'm not decided which they could be.


I'm in the middle of a post-to-post analysis of Day3, but I'll tell a few things I have found:
I get a feeling that Kuru is trying to steer the discussiong away (using the talk-effect or whatever it was called) both in #297 and #300. What do you think?

Another - and the more important - is:
This has been mentioned before, but I find Menel's post #238 leaning suspicious.

Ah, I'll try to get my thoughts more organised now, get the whole post-to-post analysis over and look at Kath's posts.

The feeling before Kath's death, Aganzir being least suspicious and Menel being the most suspicious.
Aganzir
Thinlómien
Farael
Shastanis Althreduin
Macalaure
Feanor of the Peredhil
Kuruharan
Brinniel
The Might
Meneltarmacil

Xd with everything since #435.

Originally Posted by Volo

The first is what I felt straight after morm's and sally's deaths.
The second from just before toDay started. It still doesn't mean that I'll go far enough to trust anybody, except maybe Legate, but he's dead.

Because I'm annoyed? (Nothing personal at all morm, I just don't understand why you decided to keep it a secret through that situation...) Oh... I mean, have I done that before?

I agree! It wouldn't only be interesting, but also useful - probably.

Originally Posted by Volo

I think this means that she did dream about Brinn, and now this makes more sense to me. On Night1 she Dreamed of morm, as morm is a dangerous player. On Night2 she Dreamed of Brinn and found that she's Innocent.
The way she says "unless Brinniel turns out to be a wolf I doubt morm is one" I understand it that both players are of the same side. But then why would she put Brinn into the suspicious list, it feels like a contradiction to me and makes it impossible to find out whom she Dreamed of.

If he's a Wolf, he's doing splendidly. But his last posts are indeed giving a genuine feel and I wouldn't accuse him too much because of the double-lynch. I admit that I'd have done that and Lommy seems to admit it too, don't you?
I do suspect him, but the double-lynch, as nasty as it was, doesn't tell us much about him. I'm talking nonsense - sometimes Might feels just so so Wolf-like, but so did Sally and there's a lot of similarities in their behavior. :/

I suspect Menel much more. And this - - looks like she Dreamed about Menel, on Night3 - probably. So forget what I said in my preveous post about morm being Dreamed of on Night3.


I really really hope that these people will speak up:
Shastanis Althreduin
Macalaure
Feanor of the Peredhil
Kuruharan


EDIT Xd with Aganzir

Originally Posted by Volo

Ha! Well found! I agree, although the part about Brinn still doesn't make sense to me.

Ok, I'll try to leave now - sorry for being confusing and changing my opinion often.

Originally Posted by Volo

Volo suddenly goes very defencive... of Might.

Innocents appologise just as often as the Wolves do, if not even more often.
I thought about what the Wolves win by causing a double-lynch like that and putting one of their own into such a position. They couldn't know morm was the Ranger, so I think that the deal would not be a good one for the Wolves.

Now it looks like Sally's actions, and since I was so wrong with those, I wouldn't want to lynch another Innocent newbie for the same reasons.
The part about fellow mates giving advice seems to be a key point. Might's style of play didn't change a little bit from yesterDay to toDay, and I'm sure that if there was discussion between him and fellow Wolves, then he'd change his style and inevitably play "better".


Now I think that Kath Dreamed of Innocent Lommy and morm, as Aganzir mentioned in #449.
And Wolf Menel, like I mentioned in post #450.


I find one thing Mac said very disturbing:
At first I thought that Brinn said that comment - and I'd have regarded it a reason to lynch her outright. Now in Mac's case I can't find an explanation to this being suspicious as Mac hasn't had Wolves as his main suspects (if Might isn't one). But to say something like that makes me feel that the Wolves discussed about at least one of them attacking the fellow Wolves strongly - if Mac is a Wolf, and he could be a flying-over-the-radar Wolf (which is wierd as it's Mac we're talking about). Do you think this is too far-fetched?


I have another question, about our wandering Dwarf friend Kuru. Anybody who's played with him before: Is he always so undecided? He seems like being aware of all the stuff happening here, but there is barely a post in which he's sure of what he's talking. I mean he talks a lot and gives his opinion about most things going around, but he nearly always puts a "but...", "on the other hand...", "looks too easy..." after his point and dissolves it by saying the very opposite. One can't be sure whom he suspects, and one can't even see what he thinks about people. Mostly he follows other people's trails and sweeps them around.


I'm late for a meeting, again.

Originally Posted by Volo

Aganzir, well found. I think it points more to Brinn's guilt than Might's. Just because it could be a bluff.

The thing most suspicious with Brinn is how she - to some extent - sided with morm.


I'm still at a meeting though it's turned a bit lazy, lucky that it's at an internet cafe.
I dislike such decisions like what has been made (voting or "voting" early.), but I must admit that I don't have much to add right now...

Originally Posted by Volo

Problem was that I was too certain that sally and morm are Wolves and I was annoyed for being accused wrongly - which was a bit stupid from my part as I make mistakes myself too when accusing somebody.

I didn't direct that part at this game, and I appologise for bringing a completely new "useless" topic so late in the game, but I feel stupid for lynching a Ranger. To me it was pretty certain that he'd be lynched, which is my fault - concentrating on just a few at a time. And it's just much too risky for a Wolf to claim the role of the Ranger. But let's discuss this after the game.

Suspicious, vote for the person whom you suspect, especially at this stage (generally). Could be a bluff.

The problem with suspecting Menel is at this moment is that nearly everybody seems to suspect him, which is very odd if he's a Wolf.
But I'm quite convinced that Kath Dreamed of him.


Good points, changing our decisions at this time will lead to too quick decisions. I don't deny that they could be the right decisions. As I'm a bit afraid of having both Might and Menel cornered so completely. And I think you people should drop that "explain this, explain that", "start playing better" -stuff.


As from now to the deadline I can fully concentrate on WW, I'll do that. I'm not too happy with lynching Brinn, but I'll look at what has been pointed about her actions by Aganzir and Lommy.

EDIT: Xd with Farael, twice.

Originally Posted by Volo

This is a bad topic so late, but I'm returning to what Kath said.
What I underlined pretty clearly says that she hadn't Dreamed of Brinn.
Might is a bit suspicious here, but I'll explain again why I think he hasn't been Dreamed of:
Here Menel comes as a new character into Kath's posts. That means that her suspicion on him either started on Day3 or Night3. The fact that she can't explain it and he doesn't fit right to her looks the best hint I can find. This differs from her other suspects, as there she says that she's unsure, not that she can't explain it. I won't bet my head on this, as it might be like Fea said, that Kath hadn't put hints in her posts, but the fact that Kath didn't post many posts makes me feel that she put a lot of effort into the posts she did post - adding hints.


EDIT: Xd with Brinn and Lommy.

Originally Posted by Volo

Oh, no I hadn't agreed, I just said that I'd look at what she's saying, that's different. I'm growing more suspicious of Kuru.

Explain, please, I don't think I understood you.

I think it is a horrible idea to try to find new suspects at this point of the Day!

EDIT: Xd with Mac.

Originally Posted by Volo

Tommorow, I think it would do good to inspect people from the "talk-effect" side. Who have been the ones to move the discussion into something we pretty much know is futile and bad for that moment.

I don't think I'll have the time to analyse Brinn toDay.

Originally Posted by Volo

I skimmed through Brinn with a thought and I couldn't find the feel of her being a Wolf. I think she's Innocent. All that she has said has been said with too little flaws for a Wolf - the flaws that Wolves make. From the glance I couldn't find any special reactions to other people that would indicate fellow Wolves. That means:

++Menel

I have one more point to make toDay.


Xd with everything since my previous post.

Originally Posted by Volo

I highly suspect Mac, very highly! And I ask you to read this post and think about it during the Night!

1. He has never, never felt like this to me. He has felt more present before.

2. I get the feeling that he concentrates on me most of the time, but is undecisive.

3. He is wrong with what he mostly says, or so I feel:



I get the feeling that he carefully divided us into these groups, as the possible Wolves seem to lie too neatly. Lily was the partner whom he decided to suspect, look at the way he voted her.
Menel he has always found innocent, which I recall wierd:

Here's an example, while I find Menel very suspicious because of this very thing, Mac doesn't.

Here the same as before. And I don't like these "suspicious based only on factor X", it doesn't give the whole picture and Mac's real opinion. Seems a good trick for a Wolf.


This was said very hurriedly because the deadline is drawing, but I'll look into this and explain better tomorrow. I hope you will think about this too!


Xd with everything since my preveous post.

Originally Posted by Volo

If Menel is a Wolf, I'll be quite sure that Mac is also one.

Originally Posted by Volo

She can "play" via telephone with Noggie

Bah, I have to leave now, and I don't think it's legal to go back and edit after someone has posted after me. :/